Enchanters didn't charm until PoP dire charm AA

[azxten]

Simple reality after reviewing all the evidence on Charm:

1. It was too buggy to use until late classic era. This is already well proven and undeniable. All pets were garbage due to pathing issues, etc and charm was even worse.

2. Charming was done but only in outdoor zones where SoW and open areas allowed escaping certain death from interrupts. It was also used by high level Enchanters who couldn't mez giants and they were pissed about having to charm fire giants to CC them, not excited about it, and multiple posts mention the almost certain death from trying this. This was in a raid situation not soloing FGs or duoing, etc.

3. Channeling made charming almost impossible to do indoors or anywhere else you would be in combat while trying to cast. The stun spells did not mitigate this. IMO this is still the biggest missing component on P99 to "fix" charm.

4. Mob resists were much more intricate on live than on P99. Tons of posts calling out testing and specific mobs in relation to MR. For example, all undead, etc were known to have high MR that made them unsuitable to charm.

5. Charming planar mobs was never worthwhile. It was actually extremely difficult to even mez them working in teams with an MR debuffer, etc. The idea that Brad "The Vision" McQuaid would release Plane of Fear/Hate and then sit back watching Enchanters with 10 charmed pets clearing the whole zone in an hour is laughable. This is a guy who thought kiting mobs was too extreme and outside the vision.

6. There was no "knowledge gap." People were addicted to live EQ, a shit load more people were playing, tons of websites existed with information from beta, etc. Everyone knew how things were supposed to work they just didn't work that way. No shortage of posts from crying Enchanters about all kinds of bugs with their spells not just charm.

7. For group and raid charming something is wrong about aggro generation on P99. Classic era posts support the "untauntable" aggro Enchanters could generate with mez and charm that is nowhere close to how P99 works. We all remember Enchanters running around crying until they died as everyone tried desperately to control a mob that was on them. We already know Mez on P99 is bugged because it is supposed to only wipe aggro on the first cast. You can't recast mez on a mob to re-wipe aggro, it has to fade first then be reapplied. This is at least one big bug/difference on P99 that lets Enchanter have significantly less aggro compared to live.


That's about it. This is the middle ground no one wants to acknowledge it seems. Charming was used, mostly outdoors, and it was never used to clear planes or solo dungeons like it is on P99. It was rarely used in groups as an emergency spell when a wipe seemed certain. Widely regarded as something you'd cast in a group that had an equal chance of getting you killed vs saving the group. This is because of differences in channeling rate, mob MR, aggro, and bugs. Charming eventually reached "P99" status by Velious era and FOH guild posting confirms this and mentions the exact same reasons above. Velious introduced larger zones including dungeons where the Enchanter had room to run and escape melee while charming. Bugs were mostly fixed by this era.

[azxten]

P.S. Tons of evidence supports all the claims made above. It's pretty much undeniable that all of that is true as backed up by evidence, client de-compiles, in era posting, etc. There really shouldn't be anymore discussion on this because it's already proven charm on P99 is nowhere close to classic. Until at a minimum channeling gets fixed then P99 is easy mode. Enchanter just seems to abuse this the most.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simple reality after reviewing all the evidence on Charm:

...

That's about it. This is the middle ground no one wants to acknowledge it seems. Charming was used, mostly outdoors, and it was never used to clear planes or solo dungeons like it is on P99. It was rarely used in groups as an emergency spell when a wipe seemed certain. Widely regarded as something you'd cast in a group that had an equal chance of getting you killed vs saving the group. This is because of differences in channeling rate, mob MR, aggro, and bugs. Charming eventually reached "P99" status by Velious era and FOH guild posting confirms this and mentions the exact same reasons above. Velious introduced larger zones including dungeons where the Enchanter had room to run and escape melee while charming. Bugs were mostly fixed by this era.

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[Jimjam]

I think you missed out what may be a big one - either mob attack could be too low or the by level worn AC caps are too high.

[cd288]

Welcome to the Az and Loramin circle jerk lol

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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I like your House gif.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People worried about how easy it is to get through 50 hell lvl solo charming Versus people worried about classic everquest and remember rarely seeing soloers and boxers.

ITT.

:thinkface:

It’s cool man, I’m assuming a lot of people will be like me, and either roll something that is OP then and now like Necro, or just bail, because they got used to playing their class for years a certain way and now that way is no longer viable

Then you can be on the “Necro emulation server”, or the rapidly becoming more dead than Blue on its most dead days emulated server

It will be fun having a whole empty server to yourself, like p99 red. At least until people decide now it’s no longer worth it to keep the server going. But until it gets shut off, it will FEEL really classic. Except for just hardly any players anywhere. That part won’t feel classic. Well maybe classic a few years after WoW came out

I have other games to play, no harm no foul

[unsunghero]

And when I say the Necro emulation server, I say that because from my experience leveling up, necromancer and Druid is like 1/4 the population of green lowbies and mid levels atm

Now factor in that a good chunk of enchanters will either quit or re-roll, and since Druid eats the nerf bat they won’t be as appealing of a re-roll. So necro ranks will continue to swell

Maybe they can do some Necro only RP guilds or something

[unsunghero]

Necro charm gets nerfed as well but IMO they will become the most capable solo’ers aside from geared shaman by default

[bubur]

it's too soon for another annual delete charm thread

this rate of posts is unsustainable and surely will result in euphoria and then despair and ruined lives

don't do this, think