most underpowered class in game?

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...they really don't care that much about DPS in group scenarios.

I think this plays to the druid's favor on account of the druid and wizard being closer to each other in damage dealt than either of them are to the average rogue. Nobody is going to pick them first, second, or third for damage but the druid does some other things people might pick it for. What else can I say? We play on the same server, and I see wizards and druids both being somewhat shunned in popular group areas (it's a nightmare for either of them to get a fungus king group unless they have friends in it), but wizards have the harder time of it on average.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think this plays to the druid's favor on account of the druid and wizard being closer to each other in damage dealt than either of them are to the average rogue. Nobody is going to pick them first, second, or third for damage but the druid does some other things people might pick it for. What else can I say? We play on the same server, and I see wizards and druids both being somewhat shunned in popular group areas (it's a nightmare for either of them to get a fungus king group unless they have friends in it), but wizards have the harder time of it on average.

Danth

Oh, I 100% agree Wizards are more shunned. As I have stated multiple times, on P99 Wizards are the worst grouping class due to the Stigma. I am talking about pure mechanics, if the stigma was removed.

From a pure mechanics perspective, I would say a Wizard is a better class than a Druid, simply because Wizards get to keep their full kit in all zones, where Druids lose a lot of their kit in Dungeons. These are good parts of their kit, too. It isn't like they are losing trivial spells. This means in theory a Wizard would get groups more often than Druids, because they have a wider range of zones they are useful in, and dungeons are typically more popular than outdoor zones. This is due to loot and ZEM. This assumes the server doesn't have a severe lack of healers. Druids may eek ahead of Wizards on a server where healers are in dire need.

The reason why I am talking about pure mechanics is because a stigma could be removed on P99 if players wanted to do that. No developer involvement would be needed.

As for Fungi Tunic camp specifically, most classes aren't very good for it sadly, because generally speaking Fungi Tunic camp tries to get by with the minimum number of party members, to maximize loot distribution. This means you want to bring the best classes possible to reduce how many players are needed.

[Danth]

I tend to agree with that. I'm not talking theory so much as daily reality as it presently exists on P1999, so community perception gets included in my assessment. Meaning if a person wants to make a new character on P1999 today mainly for grouping, the wizard's pretty much the worst choice he can make, even if it's not theoretically worst in all cases.

Original EQ circa 1999-2001 makes the point: There was nothing really wrong with wizards both due to different culture and different needs. The community didn't hate them. Burst mattered more in an environment where groups rarely chain-pulled and where protecting against killsteal (or doing it to others) was a real concern. It was only later on when those things began to change that they started to run into problems.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I tend to agree with that. I'm not talking theory so much as daily reality as it presently exists on P1999, so community perception gets included in my assessment. Meaning if a person wants to make a new character on P1999 today mainly for grouping, the wizard's pretty much the worst choice he can make, even if it's not theoretically worst in all cases.

Original EQ circa 1999-2001 makes the point: There was nothing really wrong with wizards both due to different culture and different needs. The community didn't hate them. Burst mattered more in an environment where groups rarely chain-pulled and where protecting against killsteal (or doing it to others) was a real concern. It was only later on when those things began to change that they started to run into problems.

Danth

I agree. If OP was specifically asking what class he should roll on P99 for grouping purposes, Wizard would be dead last on my list. But since OP's question was pretty generic, the theoretical portion of the question is open as far as I am concerned. It is a little more interesting of a conversation as well.

From a pure stigma perspective the worst classes on P99 are Ranger and Wizard, with Mage, Druid, Shadowknight, and Paladin as honorable mentions. Bard as well unless you are great at the class. If you don't want a stigma attached to your class on P99, avoid Ranger, Wizard, Mage, Druid, Shadowknight, Paladin, and Bard.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't run necro pets in raids for DPS, and generally I don't see muzzles go on charmed pets in raids either. In solo/group situations I would take Necro utility over muzzle any day.

Temp bags are cool, but a bit too dangerous IMO.

Masks go on pets for tuna a lot, and sometimes on the dogs for vindi. About it for that utility

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We had a ranger tank DN rat house recently and he did fine once slow landed. Pretty nasty mobs up to lvl 58 to, was funny honestly. That said he is very geared out

He was probably already doing this, but in case he wasn't , I feel like it's worth knowing that rangers can have mobs almost instantly slowed and hold agro.

Auto attack for a very brief moment (like, 1 round of swings), flame lick, then as the slower starts to cast slow ranger waits a beat then starts to cast second flame lick. If slow pulls agro it should normally bounce back to ranger as soon as second flame lick lands.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Masks go on pets for tuna a lot, and sometimes on the dogs for vindi. About it for that utility

Agreed. There are a few cases where muzzles can be useful. Tuna, Vindi, AoW, and Cazic-Thule all need tons of DPS. I don't remember raids muzzling charmed pets as a requirement, but it has been a while since I was heavily raiding.

[Keebz]

Rangers get a lot of shade but they are pretty balanced.

They are solid pullers and group tanks 1-60. And for raids do reasonable DPS and have some good buffs, while also having great discs for bumping, engaging, and DPS. Additionally, they get easy access to 200 range bows for FTE racing and have excellent track for outdoor camps as well as great QoL spells/toys.

My biggest complaint with ranger is that 1-60 you get used to doing all the things all the time, then when you get to raiding, you just auto-attack for the most part. Kind of a big switcheroo. Though, the same can be said about many classes I suppose.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rangers get a lot of shade but they are pretty balanced.

They are solid pullers and group tanks 1-60. And for raids do reasonable DPS and have some good buffs, while also having great discs for bumping, engaging, and DPS. Additionally, they get easy access to 200 range bows for FTE racing and have excellent track for outdoor camps as well as great QoL spells/toys.

My biggest complaint with ranger is that 1-60 you get used to doing all the things all the time, then when you get to raiding, you just auto-attack for the most part. Kind of a big switcheroo. Though, the same can be said about many classes I suppose.

It may have been mischife, but I found that with dragons that had low fire/cold I was able to do huge damage by mostly spamming spells and using proc weapons and velious that was really fun.

[Jimjam]

People overestimate the importance of harmony to rangers in group. It’s pretty easy to pull with root, root a second, snare one of the rooted and run the remaining mob to camp, snaring the fourth if there is one.

This creates a steady stream of mobs which arrive in camp at a fair pace with a good chunk hate already on a tank. It essentially creates a series of single pulls which pull them selfs allowing the ranger to spend more time in camp DPSing.