[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What if we decided to rotate on our own? They gonna force people to fight over shit?

No but they won’t enforce a rotation which means any guild that forms, dissolves, or simply chooses to break the agreement can do so at any time. For this reason and for the sake of competition (make fun of me all you want), AG and Freedom have independently come to the conclusion that we do not want to be part of any sweeping rotation. Tunare, Ring War, Fear Golems, maybe ST golems is about as far as we want to take it. Riot is the guild pushing hardest for a full rotation, much to my surprise. They believe it’s in the best interest of the server and we believe it will harm it. Gotta find a way to keep it competitive without burdening GMs with petitions. It’s the only way forward.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No but they won’t enforce a rotation which means any guild that forms, dissolves, or simply chooses to break the agreement can do so at any time. For this reason and for the sake of competition (make fun of me all you want), AG and Freedom have independently come to the conclusion that we do not want to be part of any sweeping rotation. Tunare, Ring War, Fear Golems, maybe ST golems is about as far as we want to take it. Riot is the guild pushing hardest for a full rotation, much to my surprise. They believe it’s in the best interest of the server and we believe it will harm it. Gotta find a way to keep it competitive without burdening GMs with petitions. It’s the only way forward.

Whether or not it helps or harms the server depends on who you want to cater to. Rotating is classic, so is not rotating. Do you want to cater to the people who get off on denying people pixels and will bend/break any rule they possibly can to the point where if you are in a high end raid guild you absolutely have to have at least one if not multiple people running OBS at all times to catch the misdeeds?

Or do you want to cater to the people who are in favor of something the vast majority of the server is in favor of? This game is over 20 years old. Virtually none of us are in our teens/20's anymore. We're mostly in our 30's-40's and older and we have lives, families, pets, and responsibilities. We don't care if guild X happens to get the same pixels as us. It doesn't devalue our accomplishments. The powers that be have fostered a server meta that has caused the troubles the raid scene is now experiencing.

At some point you have to ask yourself "Am I the problem?" and when it comes to how the server is run I believe that's a resounding yes. I applaud Menden, Galach, and Medris for stepping up and finally doing something about it.

[Hisamori]

No need to decide between rotation or FTE when we can just delete blue.

[enjchanter]

The cycle just repeats over and over

Guild 2 struggles vs current top guild
Guild 2 gains momentum
Top guild doesnt like that / rule change ensues
Guild 2 starts competing both america and euro hours
Infighting eats at top guild
Top crumbles / reforms / rebrands as no. 2 guild
Restart

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whether or not it helps or harms the server depends on who you want to cater to. Rotating is classic, so is not rotating. Do you want to cater to the people who get off on denying people pixels and will bend/break any rule they possibly can to the point where if you are in a high end raid guild you absolutely have to have at least one if not multiple people running OBS at all times to catch the misdeeds?

Or do you want to cater to the people who are in favor of something the vast majority of the server is in favor of? This game is over 20 years old. Virtually none of us are in our teens/20's anymore. We're mostly in our 30's-40's and older and we have lives, families, pets, and responsibilities. We don't care if guild X happens to get the same pixels as us. It doesn't devalue our accomplishments. The powers that be have fostered a server meta that has caused the troubles the raid scene is now experiencing.

At some point you have to ask yourself "Am I the problem?" and when it comes to how the server is run I believe that's a resounding yes. I applaud Menden, Galach, and Medris for stepping up and finally doing something about it.

I can appreciate that many would like rotations. I used to be in the same boat until I got a taste of competing and the bore that was instanced raiding in Classic WoW. I truly do have a all the empathy in the world for people who would like full rotations, which is why my compromise is a mix. I can only speak for myself and guild mates who share my view. Rotating is not fun and would make me want to stop playing. I enjoy competing against other guilds for kills with high stakes. I’m sure most of the server wouldn’t enjoy it but they have clearly found other ways to remain happy on the server. I believe it’s possible to compete without burdening the GMs and I have every intention of fighting for a solution that does that. I’d be happy to outline what I think I a logical approach.

[Ravager]

All due respect to Rogean and Nilbog, but why? More specifically, why not both? Leave the recycle servers for competition, make the beta server the place for people to retire in peace and quiet and rotations.


Anyway, what's to stop casual guilds from turning the tables and holding the raid scene hostage with incessant raid petitions until the GMs get fed up and decide competition is a bad thing? Not advocating this, but the gate swings both ways.

[feanan]

blue, where "competing" means how many fully buffed raid forces you can camp around the various targets.

the toxic raid scene has made a lot more people quit than the 10% who would quit if we just had enforced rotations or whatever

[Solist]

You're delusional if you think any other guild full of people would be any different. The raid guilds are the most casual guilds in many ways. And they're just full of every day normal people. TSS is a far more hostile environment than riot or freedom.

[Tunabros]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No sorry

[Shac]

just enforce a strict system for a month and then they wont take it for granted