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  #31  
Old 07-10-2021, 11:47 AM
fastboy21 fastboy21 is offline
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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It's all just so ... unclassic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(For the record, I supported /list 1.0 originally, but NO ONE remembers twenty-odd person days-long lines for ANYTHING on live. We just need a 2.0 version that trades 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. places in line for a random chance for anyone on list to become #2. On live, good loot was always about patience and luck, and the same should be true here.)
I have to agree. With skepticism (and some constructive criticism after playing them), I accepted the original /list system because of its need to automate what would otherwise be an untenable situation for GMs to maintain. I had hoped that some of the drawbacks would eventually get worked out later on.

The AFK checks on multi-day camp are atrocious and, honestly, unhealthy designed play. (If you can really call it "play" at all.)

There is no chance of the RNG rewarding a casual player (casual is anyone who can't sit for two days waiting for their turn --- not exaggerating). In classic EQ there is a chance that such a player gets rewarded. If it takes an average statistical player 100 hundred hours to farm an item, he should be able to break that commitment up (10 hours here --- so casual, 10 hours there, a few hours here, etc.) and, in the aggregate, commit enough time to eventually let the RNG give him his reward. Those players are shit out of luck with this system --- and, in my opinion, it is more than a small demographic.

I understand the need for creating an in-game system to somehow deal with this stuff, but I feel like there are better solutions that we should find in the future compared to the current iteration of /list.
  #32  
Old 07-10-2021, 04:43 PM
fortior fortior is offline
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casual players don't need elder beads

but yes, /list is a problem. making it RNG based does not solve that problem. the problem is that a highly desirable and very powerful item is time-limited and made to drop only in a very small area. the solution would be to not nerf the item, but that is Not Classic, and we can't have things that aren't classic (like high speed internet, the p99 wiki, /list, rooted dragons, the list goes on)
Last edited by fortior; 07-10-2021 at 04:46 PM..
  #33  
Old 07-10-2021, 04:55 PM
fastboy21 fastboy21 is offline
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Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
casual players don't need elder beads
Not sure the logic that brought you to this conclusion. Seems like you might have just made it up.

The "problem" isn't the high demand (justified by the utility) on the item or the high price tag that it commands. This is part of the game...and should remain so.

The current system essentially locks out a casual player (a term I defined in my previous post as not being able to be online hitting an afk check button for 48 hours or longer -- I'm talking about a player who logs in and plays at the camp for 15 hours every day for two months at his favorite rare item camp. THAT guy has a ZERO chance to win in the /list system).

That seems obviously flawed to me --- again, not in a way that makes the system horribly useless, but in a way that should be addressed somehow in future iterations of the /list system.
  #34  
Old 07-10-2021, 05:12 PM
cd288 cd288 is online now
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Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Not sure the logic that brought you to this conclusion. Seems like you might have just made it up.

The "problem" isn't the high demand (justified by the utility) on the item or the high price tag that it commands. This is part of the game...and should remain so.

The current system essentially locks out a casual player (a term I defined in my previous post as not being able to be online hitting an afk check button for 48 hours or longer -- I'm talking about a player who logs in and plays at the camp for 15 hours every day for two months at his favorite rare item camp. THAT guy has a ZERO chance to win in the /list system).

That seems obviously flawed to me --- again, not in a way that makes the system horribly useless, but in a way that should be addressed somehow in future iterations of the /list system.
Except your whole example is flawed from the start because those items are perma camped so the odds of the guy being able to log in every day and conveniently find the camp open for him to sit at for 15 hours are almost 0
  #35  
Old 07-10-2021, 05:13 PM
LHK LHK is offline
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IMO /list is fine conceptually, the problem is having teams of players sharing accounts turning it into a multi-day ordeal. I know people personally who have 5+ people all logging into one char abusing the relog window of time in order to maintain their spot on the list, and i'm sure every single person at the list is doing exactly that. This completely defeats the point of /list. I don't care if technically sharing accounts is allowed, the elder beads list is one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen on P99 and is completely against the spirit of the game IMO. It's rubbed me in such a wrong way that I've been considering quitting playing because it's just wrong to me that 1) people would do that and 2) the staff sees this and is fine with it. I was around for Velious on blue and it wasn't like this at all, casual players had a real shot at getting beads (it was a very long/brutal camp but it was *possible*) - it's literally not possible now unless you have a team of people you trust to log into a char and hit that AFK button every 15 minutes.

The /list is a failure, and it erodes confidence in Project 1999 as a whole to me - There are so many unclassic changes on this server already but this shit is a step too far for me, personally. It's so god damn depressing seeing everyone crowd into The Hole for months and months, places like KC / Seb being completely deserted (which they weren't on blue in Kunark), due to unclassic ZEM changes but being told that "This is fine" the whole time, and velious finally coming out and having this shitshow happen and again, "this is fine".

It's not fine, this server is missing the entire point of its existence now, and I'm just about ready to give up on it. I love P99, I started playing here in 2013 but started really playing in 2015, so 6 years of almost every day playing here and watching it just devolve into this shit is so depressing. The best experience I ever had was when Green launched, everyone was in it together to get XP (and healthily compete for the limited XP mobs) and to just experience classic. Kunark Release was still okay, lots of excitement and people playing because it was "new" and exciting. Once the Hole came out with its ZEM this server basically died at the upper end. Players who would have probably given up around lvl 52 were able to be carried to 60 by this zones ridiculous double XP and completely ignored all other content (Its absurd to me that no XP groups happen in Seb or KC in-era. I get it, path of least resistance, but thats as "unclassic" as it gets).

The problem has been exacerbated so much now with Velious release and the beads camp showing that the current devs, while I do think they are amazing from a CSR standpoint, have little to no interest in making things *actually* classic, or even in the "Spirit of Classic". I will concede that obviously its a tricky problem, the players have changed, the knowledge of how important stuff is is so much greater now especially with legacy items, but come the hell on, at some point you have to admit this project is, generously heading in the wrong direction and at worst an abject failure.

I'm sorry for the vent / rant, I don't mean to flame anybody, I just really care a lot about this server/game and it pains me greatly to see where it's going.
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2021, 06:11 PM
BlackBellamy BlackBellamy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
and it erodes confidence in Project 1999 as a whole to me - There are so many unclassic changes on this server already but this shit is a step too far for me, personally.
alternative is some guild will control the elder spawns and you the casual player will never ever get any until every last of their alts gets one and also it will generate endless petitions which for me would be the main reason, because i don't want my volunteer staff to settle bead disputes all day long
  #37  
Old 07-10-2021, 06:48 PM
Fammaden Fammaden is offline
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The real hard solution was never to have pre-nerf legacy items in the game at all. Its not as integral to the classic experience as people make out, and they mostly just generate interest from the most greedy and sweaty factions of players. The stuff was nerfed/removed for a reason. It just creates a huge diversion from the intent of the wider game world.
  #38  
Old 07-10-2021, 06:49 PM
fastboy21 fastboy21 is offline
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Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Except your whole example is flawed from the start because those items are perma camped so the odds of the guy being able to log in every day and conveniently find the camp open for him to sit at for 15 hours are almost 0
Not really. How many times on live did you sit and just wait a few hours for a spot in a group? Helping out with buffs or a rez or ports...chatting and making jokes...and eventually getting into the group? Did you ever log in every few hours just to do a camp check? Ever wake up early on a week day just to get a better shot of a grp needing a rep?

It isn't easy, but it IS a real and workable path that the /list system cuts off at the pass. Again, I'm not talking about casuals in the typical sense (log in a few hours a week, etc.) The so-called casuals I'm talking about can and do play for marathon 24 hour sessions...they aren't hard-core enough to do a /list camp though b/c they simply can't be online for literal days at a time hitting an afk check.
  #39  
Old 07-10-2021, 07:50 PM
fortior fortior is offline
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Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Not sure the logic that brought you to this conclusion. Seems like you might have just made it up.
beads are 600k plat on blue, which means 0 casual players have them, and there's plenty of casual players having a great time playing on the p1999 blue server.

they are nice to have if you are pulling raid mobs for a guild. in which case you either have a set because you are a hardcore raider or your guild gives you beads to use because you are an awesome puller.

you just want a shot at a big plat payday and you can't get one with the current system, which is why you want to turn it into a more fair system (one with the same end result for the playerbase at large, except you personally have a chance at getting the item you want).
  #40  
Old 07-10-2021, 11:59 PM
fastboy21 fastboy21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
beads are 600k plat on blue, which means 0 casual players have them, and there's plenty of casual players having a great time playing on the p1999 blue server.

they are nice to have if you are pulling raid mobs for a guild. in which case you either have a set because you are a hardcore raider or your guild gives you beads to use because you are an awesome puller.

you just want a shot at a big plat payday and you can't get one with the current system, which is why you want to turn it into a more fair system (one with the same end result for the playerbase at large, except you personally have a chance at getting the item you want).
Actually, I don't play on green anymore...so I don't have a dog in the fight except in trying to make the game better. Not sure why you assume otherwise about me.

I also play on Blue. My monk and necro both have beads there. I am a casual player. I guess I don't exist.
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