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  #11  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:29 AM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Isn't it technically stereotyping, or maybe even racist, to assume that those without legal ID are primarily black? Where is this conclusion drawn from?
Countless sources; here's just one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2021/03/10390186/georgia-voting-bill-passage-what-to-know
According to a 2020 report on voter suppression from the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School, 25% of Black voting-age citizens nationally did not have a current government-issued photo ID, compared to 8% of white voting-age citizens.
And then it links to https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...er-suppression for the details, which helpfully explains:

Quote:
Take strict voter ID.

These laws require voters to present a government-issued photo ID in order to vote, and they offer no meaningful fallback options for people who do not possess one of these IDs. Like their Jim Crow predecessors, strict voter ID laws are often defended by reference to a racially neutral need to defend the “integrity” of elections. Specifically, defenders claim that voter ID laws are needed to combat voter impersonation fraud. But study after study has shown that voter impersonation fraud is vanishingly rare.

Many also claim that these laws impose little burden because everyone has the requisite ID — but the reality is that millions of Americans don’t, and they are disproportionately people of color.
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Last edited by loramin; 04-03-2021 at 11:31 AM..
  #12  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:31 AM
Baler Baler is offline
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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Countless sources; here's just one:



https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...er-suppression
Note it doesn't say that legal aged black citizens in 2020 were unable to get legal ID.

Back after slavery, blacks were having trouble getting any form of valid legal ID. That's just not the case now.

If a 21 year old has to be responsible enough to have an ID to buy booze. Then why is it so different than having someone who is 18 have an ID to vote?

If people aren't getting a valid ID, it's their own damn fault in 2021.
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:32 AM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Note it doesn't say that legal aged black citizens in 2020 were unable to get legal ID.

Back after slavery, blacks were having trouble getting any form of valid legal ID. That's just not the case now.

If a 21 year old has to be responsible enough to have an ID to buy booze. Then why is it so different than having someone who is 18 have an ID to vote?

If people aren't getting a valid ID, it's their own damn fault in 2021.
Again with the "let's not live in reality" argument. Again, the reality is simple: whether you like it or not A) IDs do (in practice/effectively) nothing to ensure fair elections, B) they absolutely disenfranchise black voters disproportionately, C) they are part of a VERY LONG history of racist voting laws in Georgia.

Look, if you want to sway me with a logical argument, just provide evidence the above is false. Show me any neutral third-party party that says "yes we legitimately need voter IDs to protect our elections". Or show me any neutral party with evidence that blacks do have IDs at similar rates as whites. Or show me a credible historian who won't tell me Georgia's history is chock full of racist voter suppression laws.
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Last edited by loramin; 04-03-2021 at 11:36 AM..
  #14  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:34 AM
Baler Baler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Again with the "let's not live in reality" argument. Again, the reality is simple: whether you like it or not A) IDs do (in practice/effectively) nothing to ensure fair elections, B) they absolutely disenfranchise black voters disproportionately, C) they are part of a VERY LONG history of racist voting laws in Georgia.
I AM living in reality.

They need to get their ass out of the house and go apply for a valid ID.
Which any American citizen can do regardless of what color their skin is.
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Countless sources; here's just one:



And then it links to https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...er-suppression for the details, which helpfully explains:
You don't need an ID to prove voting eligibility

A utility bill for example is perfectly acceptable
  #16  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:39 AM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You don't need an ID to prove voting eligibility

A utility bill for example is perfectly acceptable
"This 100% unnecessary thing we're doing, that just happens to make it so less blacks can vote in Georgia ... a state with a long and dark history of preventing its black citizens from voting ... is totally fair and not racist. Making people do unnecessary things is more important than ensuring your fellow black citizen gets to participate in our democracy."

You know, I think I've heard this before:

"Anyone can read, and anyone who can't shouldn't be voting, so we'll just block any black voters from voting unless they pass this literacy test (which we'll just forget to give to white voters)".

I repeat:

Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Look, if you want to sway me with a logical argument, just provide evidence the above is false. Show me any neutral third-party party that says "yes we legitimately need voter IDs to protect our elections". Or show me any neutral party with evidence that blacks do have IDs at similar rates as whites. Or show me a credible historian who won't tell me Georgia's history is chock full of racist voter suppression laws.
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:40 AM
Baler Baler is offline
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Loramin prove me wrong that any American citizen can get a valid ID.
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:43 AM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Loramin prove me wrong that any American citizen can get a valid ID.
It's not about whether they can or not, it's about whether it's necessary to protect our democracy. Every American (except disabled ones) can get into good enough physical shape to do ten push-ups also ...

... BUT WE DON'T HAVE A TEN PUSH-UP REQUIREMENT TO VOTE!

We don't have any requirements to vote, unless they are necessary to protect our democracy, because anything more than that will be used to disenfranchise people ... you know ... just like they've been doing in Georgia for centuries (and it's the entire reason we passed the historic Civil Rights act!)

So again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Look, if you want to sway me with a logical argument, just provide evidence the above is false. Show me any neutral third-party party that says "yes we legitimately need voter IDs to protect our elections". Or show me any neutral party with evidence that blacks do have IDs at similar rates as whites. Or show me a credible historian who won't tell me Georgia's history is chock full of racist voter suppression laws.
If you can't do that, and you're still arguing for this law, you're choosing to live in a fantasy land.
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:43 AM
G13 G13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
"This 100% unnecessary thing we're doing, that just happens to make it so less blacks can vote in Georgia ... a state with a long and dark history of preventing its black citizens from voting ... is totally fair and not racist. Making people do unnecessary things is more important than ensuring your fellow black citizen gets to participate in our democracy."
You're dodging and I'm not taking that emotional bait

Going by your logic, every prior election (including Potato's stea ... ERRR "win") last election is invalid because roaricms or something



Even a Birth Certificate is perfectly valid

Are those racist too?
  #20  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:44 AM
Baler Baler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It's not about whether they can or not, it's about whether it's necessary to protect our democracy. Every American (except disabled ones) can get into good enough physical shape to do ten push-ups also ...

... BUT WE DON'T HAVE A TEN PUSH-UP REQUIREMENT TO VOTE!

We don't have any requirements to vote, unless they are necessary to protect our democracy, because anything more than that will be used to disenfranchise people ... you know ... just like they've been doing in Georgia for centuries (and it's the entire reason we passed the historic Civil Rights act!)
You're repeating yourself a lot and avoiding what I'm saying.

It was an issue in the past, yes.
It's no longer an issue of today.

Any American citizen can obtain valid identification and be able to vote.
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