shaman chest piece question - Page 2

ArbiterBlixen · #11 05-06-2022, 04:12 PM

You are way overestimating the added survivability you get with a vindi BP. Sure in the rare case where you're reaching sub 100hp I guess it technically saved you. Every other fight Fungi is worth 1300ish hp in a 10minute fight, Vindi BP is not worth 1300hp in a 10 minute fight. And btw, you keep comparing Fungi to torpor, when the comparison should be Fungi vs. Vindi bp.

DeathsSilkyMist · #12 05-06-2022, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are way overestimating the added survivability you get with a vindi BP. Sure in the rare case where you're reaching sub 100hp I guess it technically saved you. Every other fight Fungi is worth 1300ish hp in a 10minute fight, Vindi BP is not worth 1300hp in a 10 minute fight. And btw, you keep comparing Fungi to torpor, when the comparison should be Fungi vs. Vindi bp.

You are misunderstanding my points, and the math in general.

When you are not fighting, Fungi Tunic saves you 30 seconds at best, due to how fast Torpor recovers your HP/MP.

When you are fighting, the first minute of a fight is generally all that matters to a Torpor Shaman (i.e. the time before a mob is slowed).

In the first minute of the fight, if you are at full HP, Vindi BP will soak 120-165HP, depending on if you are STA capped. It also has a chance to reduce additional damage via AC/Resists.

In the first minute of the fight, if you are at full HP, Fungi Tunic will soak 150HP.

After the first minute of the fight, Fungi Tunic Regen is irrelevant, as you are either dead/gated, or in control of the fight (slow has landed).

Vindi BP can easily save you more than 1300HP in a 10 minute fight, depending on how the AC/Resists mitigate damage. But the point you are missing is 1300HP over 10 minutes is irrelevant anyway, because that is just 1 Torpor. If 1 Torpor (200 mana) is the difference between life and death, the problem wasn't your equipment, it was a problem with your skill, bad luck, or with the fight you picked.

May I ask if you have a Torpor Shaman? From my experience playing a Torpor Shaman for years on P99, I can tell you that 15 extra HP regen per tick is not very useful once you have Torpor. To be honest I rarely cast Regrowth on myself, and I have no trouble finishing fights. I see no significant difference in the time it takes to finish a fight when having Regrowth on vs. not having it on. That means I am not missing the +28HP Regen from Fungi Tunic + Regrowth.

ArbiterBlixen · #13 05-06-2022, 05:36 PM

Yes, I have a torp shaman. The point isn't whether you'll notice the fungi regen after you have torp. The point is over a 10 minute fight it provides more than a Vindi BP. All additional pieces of gear will provide very marginal benefit but, it all adds up in the end. Even your own math says Vindi bp will provide between 120-165hp in the first minute Vs 150hp from fungi. So you're saying at best a 15hp difference in the first minute is somehow more valuable than 1300hp over the course of the whole fight? And again, I'm not making the point that this will make or break the fight. I'm simply saying that Fungi will outperform Vindi BP in a non-resist fight.

DeathsSilkyMist · #14 05-06-2022, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, I have a torp shaman. The point isn't whether you'll notice the fungi regen after you have torp. The point is over a 10 minute fight it provides more than a Vindi BP. All additional pieces of gear will provide very marginal benefit but, it all adds up in the end. Even your own math say Vindi bp will provide between 120-165hp in the first minute Vs 150hp from fungi. So you're saying at best a 15hp difference in the first minute is somehow more valuable than 1300hp over the course of the whole fight? And again, I'm not making the point that this will make or break the fight. I'm simply saying that Fungi will outperform Vindi BP in a non-resist fight.

My point is that the extra mitigation from AC/Resists is going to save you when it matters. Vindi BP soaks the same flat damage over the first minute, plus it has the bonus chance of mitigating extra damage via the AC/Resists.

Once the mob is slowed Fungi Tunic regeneration is irrelevant. Who cares about Fungi Tunic regeneration if it has 0 effect on the fight? Once the mob is slowed you won't die, regardless of what chest piece you have on. And after the fight the time it takes to recover is the same.

Vindi BP is superior because it is better at handling damage spikes (a mob getting a lucky double attack for max damage, or casting a dangerous spell). Fungi Tunic is too slow and too consistent when fighting tough mobs. Torpor is just too fast in terms of recovery.

ArbiterBlixen · #15 05-06-2022, 05:49 PM

In my original comment I specified fights not requiring resist, so I won't comment on that cause it's recognized.

In a pure hp fight Fungi is the better option no contest.

DeathsSilkyMist · #16 05-06-2022, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my original comment I specified fights not requiring resist, so I won't comment on that cause it's recognized.

In a pure hp fight Fungi is the better option no contest.

You're ignoring the AC I keep mentioning[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] AC is used for melee fights last time I checked. Vindi BP has +24 AC over Fungi Tunic, and you are not losing 10 AGI. That AC could easily reduce the damage of a hit that would otherwise be max damage. Vindi BP is simply better at mitigating burst damage, which is the biggest threat to a Torpor Shaman.

ArbiterBlixen · #17 05-06-2022, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're ignoring the AC I keep mentioning[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] AC is used for melee fights last time I checked. Vindi BP has +24 AC over Fungi Tunic, and you are not losing 10 AGI. That AC could easily reduce the damage of a hit that would otherwise be max damage. Vindi BP is simply better at mitigating burst damage, which is the biggest threat to a Torpor Shaman.

I'm not ignoring it, I just think 13hp regen is better.

DeathsSilkyMist · #18 05-06-2022, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not ignoring it, I just think 13hp regen is better.

I understand, and you are certainly free to think that. But math-wise the 13HP regen is generally not better.

ArbiterBlixen · #19 05-06-2022, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand, and you are certainly free to think that. But math-wise the 13HP regen is generally not better.

What? even your own math says it's better. 120-165hp vs 150hp in the first minute and 1100-1300hp over the course of ten minutes (there, accounted for ac).

DeathsSilkyMist · #20 05-06-2022, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What? even your own math says it's better. 120-165hp vs 150hp in the first minute and 1100-1300hp over the course of ten minutes (there, accounted for ac).

My math does not say that. You are saying that to try and win.

1300HP over 10 minutes is basically irrelevant.

Vindi BP can easily mitigate more damage than Fungi Tunic in a short period of time, such as 30 seconds. This kind of mitigation is what a Torpor Shaman cares about. They do not care about 1300HP over 10 minutes. Why? Because 1300HP over 10 minutes is 1 Torpor.