Why is America so prudish? (might contain NSFW stuff?!)

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're moving the goalposts by discounting the crusades, you're again gatekeeping Christianity. Besides which you're ignoring the terrible shit Britain/her agents were responsible for for the sake of looting the world.

Law and order precedes christianity. The Mediterranean cultures that housed early christianity are from which western development is derived. By definition they predate christian values. Istanbul also played a major role of influence in thr development of modern nations despite not being christian.

The thing is you're again moving the goal posts talking about modern nations, that has nothing to do with morality.

You argued morality is impossible without christianity, now you're arguing devopment of modern societies required the support of christian institution which is really a different debate and distracts from the fact there are clear examles Christianity is not synonamous with morality.

How long ago were the crusades?

How many Christian societies have run successfully since then?

Now figure out the likely ratio and realize your argument is nutty.

Remember at the end of the day the people following Christianity are still human and make human mistakes. Humans sin, even Christians. Trying to be better is a big thing in Christianity not the guarantee that you’re a perfect creature right now. And also there’s been groups that have taken control of establishment Christianity. It’s happening right now.

Your argument is the other side of the coin of anecdotally pointing at your atheist buddy who you consider a good person therefore atheism is good. It’s a wack ass argument. You’re missing appropriate context.

[Horza]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Christian values aren't thousands of years old. They're nearly 2000 at best. This is why people don't take you at face value.

The Protestant Reformation took place during the sixteenth century.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn’t 2000 years old ....thousands?

He’s also missing that Christian values are rooted in judeo Christian values which are much older than 2000 years as well.

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How long ago were the crusades?

How many Christian societies have run successfully since then?

Now figure out the likely ratio and realize your argument is nutty.

Remember at the end of the day the people following Christianity are still human and make human mistakes. Humans sin, even Christians. Trying to be better is a big thing in Christianity not the guarantee that you’re a perfect creature right now. And also there’s been groups that have taken control of establishment Christianity. It’s happening right now.

Your argument is the other side of the coin of anecdotally pointing at your atheist buddy who you consider a good person therefore atheism is good. It’s a wack ass argument. You’re missing appropriate context.

But the thing you are missing is that a lot of those successfully run 'Christian' countries do so by separating church and state. Even the founding fathers had the foresight to look to religion for morality, but keep it separate from government. You are attributing success to religion where it's definitely not warranted.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Fawqueue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But the thing you are missing is that a lot of those successfully run 'Christian' countries do so by separating church and state. Even the founding fathers had the foresight to look to religion for morality, but keep it separate from government. You are attributing success to religion where it's definitely not warranted.

To me, these are still examples of Christian nations. I don’t believe you need a Pope-sequel president to be considered a Christian nation. Just a background, morality and leadership that is largely Christian and hold Christian values. Same thing for atheist. I would consider a society largely an atheist society if most of its people and leaders were atheists and clearly had those values.

[Horza]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He’s also missing that Christian values are rooted in judeo Christian values which are much older than 2000 years as well.

Jordan Peterson has rotted your brain, you think that Christian values predate Christ?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Fawqueue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But the thing you are missing is that a lot of those successfully run 'Christian' countries do so by separating church and state. Even the founding fathers had the foresight to look to religion for morality, but keep it separate from government. You are attributing success to religion where it's definitely not warranted.

I don't think Teppler is saying the church runs these countries or anything like that, rather the church's soft influence shapes the morality of the country... Right T?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How long ago were the crusades?

How many Christian societies have run successfully since then?

Now figure out the likely ratio and realize your argument is nutty.

Remember at the end of the day the people following Christianity are still human and make human mistakes. Humans sin, even Christians. Trying to be better is a big thing in Christianity not the guarantee that you’re a perfect creature right now. And also there’s been groups that have taken control of establishment Christianity. It’s happening right now.

Your argument is the other side of the coin of anecdotally pointing at your atheist buddy who you consider a good person therefore atheism is good. It’s a wack ass argument. You’re missing appropriate context.

I just misunderstood you then. It seemed you were arguing being atheist is anathema to morality on every level. My apologies if you weren't intended to be so absolute.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn’t 2000 years old ....thousands?

Well Jesus didn't have a cult following until his 30s, and Christianity as an organised, codified religion is younger again than that.

Using 'thousands' to mean 'just about, nearly but not quite 2000, unless we consider the herald testimony John the Baptist' seems disingenuous.

As does claiming ancient jewish values as christian values. And yes, I am aware the nature of the christ was prophesied, but that still is not christian values (noble as the 10 commandments may have been of whatever overlap the religions share).

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Horza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Protestant Reformation took place during the sixteenth century.

You raise a good point on what ARE Christian values? You think a message of love and respect would be simple but there have been so many schisms. Orthodox, catholic, protestant, hell even atheistic christianity?