FTE Shouts: Rethinking Their Mechanics and Issue

[Frieza_Prexus]

One issue that occurred to me was what if a guild has one of those 4 engagers die? Do they lose FTE? The solution is simple, I think. Once FTE has been achieved, if the number of players from that committed guild goes under 4 but remains above 1, the mob will reissue FTE after five seconds unless the number of engaged people again climbs to 4 or more. If the number goes to 0 at any time, the mob is, obviously, reset for all purposes.

Obviously the numbers be tweaked again, but the premise remains the same. Under such a scheme it is technically possible to stall by feeding the dragon a player every 5 seconds, but you'd run out of snacks to give it really really fast.

Originally Posted by porigromus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Probably best suggestion right here. Implement this for boss fights and then let the players handle disputes via pvp

Undoubtedly exciting and simple, but beyond the scope of this discussion.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One issue that occurred to me was what if a guild has one of those 4 engagers die? Do they lose FTE? The solution is simple, I think. Once FTE has been achieved, if the number of players from that committed guild goes under 4 but remains above 1, the mob will reissue FTE after five seconds unless the number of engaged people again climbs to 4 or more. If the number goes to 0 at any time, the mob is, obviously, reset for all purposes.

Why code all of this logic when you could simply wait for the opposing force to wipe and aggro to reset completely? This would also enable a second force to engage before the boss' HP reset to 100%, which is not the kind of engage I feel the server developers should advocate. If guild_A wipes to a mob at 1%, but the FTC hand-off occurs such that guild_B picks up the mob while at least one person from guild_A was still aggroed, guild_B could be awarded a rightful kill for doing 1% of the work. This may not matter much in Kunark, but has the potential to become an issue in Velious with 100kHP+ mobs. Once you have FTE/FTC, its yours until the mob dies or everyone is removed from his aggro list and HPs reset.

[Metallikus]

I propose guilds adopt a raid force respect program. If you have 10 people in zone, you can SHOUT "10 rule of respect for X" where X is the raid mob in question. If you shout out for respect, all other guilds can't engage that mob for 10 min. at the end fo the 10 min, if the mob has not been engaged (not stalled, actual engage) your guild has forfeited its chance at the mob until it has died and spawned again. This would allow almost any guild to compete as 10 min and 10 people are not hard to acheive at any level of raiding and it prevents all blatant shenanigens employed by the top guilds to train, greif, fte snipe, ect and gives us a more civilized end game raid scene. During the first guilds respect of 10 min, any other guild arriving can shout the same thing to get on the next ten min interval if the first guild wipes or fails to engage but must not embark on the other raids area of set up or in between them and the mob in question.

Xasten's idea only makes the rules lawyering more complicated and will just end up breeding more ridiculous zerg strategies to win the rules lawyering game.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xasten's idea only makes the rules lawyering more complicated and will just end up breeding more ridiculous zerg strategies to win the rules lawyering game.

Actually, such a scheme demonstrably reduces rules lawyering in the same manner as simple FTE shouts, and it has the added bonus stopping stall tactics.

[Metallikus]

why can't you guys respect a guild's raid force present for 10 goddamn min? bring the server into the civilized era and away from the douchebag fte era.

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, such a scheme demonstrably reduces rules lawyering in the same manner as simple FTE shouts, and it has the added bonus stopping stall tactics.

false, all your suggestion demonstrates is how retarded FTE is in the first place and how much rule lawyering is involved that you propose to code in a bunch of un-needed non -classic game mechanics.

Show some respect for the rest of the server, and try to come up with a solution that isn't micromanaging the douchebag raid scene between the two top zerg guilds.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, such a scheme demonstrably reduces rules lawyering in the same manner as simple FTE shouts, and it has the added bonus stopping stall tactics.

But it also has the unintended side-effect of providing legitimate kills to guilds that do not put all the effort in (legitimate engage before the mob resets). This is the very problem you are attempting to solve with FTC notifications, so you've created additional code that doesn't solve the problem.

I do not have a better suggestion, but this suggestion does not meet its intended goal, so I cannot support it.

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Show some respect for the rest of the server, and try to come up with a solution that isn't micromanaging the douchebag raid scene between the two top zerg guilds.

This is the core of the issue, albeit stated in a rude manner. Additional game mechanics/server rules to lawyer is not the issue. Inter-guild communication (or lack there-of) is the problem with our raid scene. "Damn it all for the pixels" is not the chant we should be shouting as we run into battle.

Also, by forcing FTC as a "higher right to loot" than FTE, you've now made it more difficult for a raid to disengage because instead of possibly only having 1-2 persons engaged erroneously, everyone is running at the mob attempting to get to "first 4" on FTC. Disengaging/feinting engage will become a less viable raid tactic.

[kotton05]

who ever gets fte, it shouts their name, end of story. no fancy rules or stuff. otherwise dont do it, just makes my head spin reading what xasten is trying to make points about.

[kotton05]

it's also not hard to /assist the target and see who its targeting. only real time fte shouts were needed was when poopsocking happened, which after last patch seems to be a thing of the past.