most underpowered class in game?

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Critical resists are the main problem, which is alleviated via CHA. But yes, I have gotten plenty of resist chains myself on the lull line of spells. Like everything in EQ, you get unlucky at times. But it's still generally better than trying to root the whole camp while having 3+ mobs trying to kill you, especially at higher levels when mobs hurt even more.

Agreed pacify line is extremely powerful, just also resisted alot of your doing any sort of hard content.

[Gloomlord]

It's clearly Wizard. There are very little redeeming qualities to this class other than being raid DPS.

Horrible DPS in groups that is outpaced even by the knights. Mediocre soloing that is dependant upon SOME gear. Negligible utility other than mobilisation and evacuation.

They're so terribly designed, I have no idea what Verant was thinking.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep revealing your lack of game knowledge. You don't even know how lull works on P99. That is why you prefer root.

No, you just reveal your lack of intelligence, once again missing the point. That point being, Lull can not simply be depended upon to move through an area freely or pull for free. It will sometimes be crit resisted, thus getting you nowhere. In areas where Lull is completely dependable, Root can often serve the same function. For example, 3 MOBs are standing next to each other. You pull by rooting one of them and then run back and root one of the others. Now they are completely separated, the same as Lull would have done.

Your fallacy here is idiotic on multiple levels, seeing as Root has other functions that Lull doesn't. Root is crowd control, lull does nothing on already aggroed mobs. Root is aggro management, forcing the MOB to hit the nearest melee player. Root prevents wanderers from pathing away, saving time from not having to chase them down.

And for the typical grouping situations we've been talking about in this thread, Lull is almost never needed over Root to begin with. The best ways and places to level don't require Lull, nor for grinding faction, nor for the majority of item/cash farming.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regardless of how lull might have worked on live in 1999, it does not get resisted nearly that much on P99. Until that changes, there is no point in worrying about how you think it should work.

p99 is trying to recreate classic EQ. Thus, discussions about "the game" on p99 are often about Classic, and about reminiscing.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm with you there, I played a paladin throughout that era and the lull spell line sucked no matter how much charisma you stacked.

Verant massively nerfed lull, utterly crippled the spell, a few months after EQ opened. They gave it a greatly increased, hugely inflatwed resist rate. It rendered the entire line practically useless except for use against very low blues and greens. Later on, during I think Luclin era, that nerf was reverted and the spell line was revamped; P1999, being based off PoP-era EQ-EMU, to my knowledge never truly implemented lull spells with their classic resist rates. The classic lull nerf was done host-side so it never showed up in the spelldata files that P99 tends to use as primary evidence.

Yeah that makes total sense. What you say about it only being reliable on low blues also matches up with my memory. Harmony was WAY, WAY better than Lull (in outdoor tagged zones, of course). Lull was very risky in the places you actually needed it most, and not worth using to pull with over Root the majority of the time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You still don't know the proper definition of fallacy.

Lull can be used consistently to get though areas and pull on P99. You haven't been playing a class with lull it seems. Roots can break early, so it isn't like you can't get bad luck with root too lol. In a dungeon where you don't need to lull due to the power of your group, you don't need much CC anyway. But not all dungeons/groups are like that.

Is it possible you haven't played P99 since roots always held for max duration? That was changed years ago, but it would make sense based on how little you seem to know. Maybe you still think roots always hold for max duration.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you just reveal your lack of intelligence, once again missing the point. That point being, Lull can not simply be depended upon to move through an area freely or pull for free. It will sometimes be crit resisted, thus getting you nowhere. In areas where Lull is completely dependable, Root can often serve the same function. For example, 3 MOBs are standing next to each other. You pull by rooting one of them and then run back and root one of the others. Now they are completely separated, the same as Lull would have done.

Your fallacy here is idiotic on multiple levels, seeing as Root has other functions that Lull doesn't. Root is crowd control, lull does nothing on already aggroed mobs. Root is aggro management, forcing the MOB to hit the nearest melee player. Root prevents wanderers from pathing away, saving time from not having to chase them down.

And for the typical grouping situations we've been talking about in this thread, Lull is almost never needed over Root to begin with. The best ways and places to level don't require Lull, nor for grinding faction, nor for the majority of item/cash farming.



p99 is trying to recreate classic EQ. Thus, discussions about "the game" on p99 are often about Classic, and about reminiscing.



Yeah that makes total sense. What you say about it only being reliable on low blues also matches up with my memory. Harmony was WAY, WAY better than Lull (in outdoor tagged zones, of course). Lull was very risky in the places you actually needed it most, and not worth using to pull with over Root the majority of the time.

Lull is amazing,there is no better way to pull in indoor zones. With high cha 200+ critical resists don't happen to often,if you have a dwarf paladin with 50cha you can expect a lot of them. A couple simple item swaps can make a big difference.
Paladins are fun,if you ever want to try this game I recommend them.

[Jimjam]

Pft best way to pull is to grab 7 mins worth of mobs, slap evasive as you bring them in to camp, let CC sort out the mess while you take practically no damage for 3 mins, kill the tough mobs in those 3 mins, and then clear out the weaker mobs which will still do next to no damage even without evasive and then repeat when there are like 2 mobs left in camp.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pft best way to pull is to grab 7 mins worth of mobs, slap evasive as you bring them in to camp, let CC sort out the mess while you take practically no damage for 3 mins, kill the tough mobs in those 3 mins, and then clear out the weaker mobs which will still do next to no damage even without evasive and then repeat when there are like 2 mobs left in camp.

High stress pulls are the most fun, for sure.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lull can be used consistently to get though areas and pull on P99.

It certainly can, and it is. Regardless of how the spell operated in original EQ, on P1999 people can and do stack charisma and cast it 15, 20, 25 times in a row 'till it lands without getting a crit. It's definitely a significant component of enchanter solo power in particular--regardless of charm strength, things like Khelkor (minus his four buddies) would be iffy at best solo without reliable split pulling. Sure lull does crit fail once in awhile, but I am convinced it works better here than in original. So be it. No, I'm not going to try to prove it....I'm not trying to get anything nerfed.

Danth

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

High stress pulls are the most fun, for sure.

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[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You still don't know the proper definition of fallacy.

Amazing how you always ignore everything and just use statements like this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Roots can break early, so it isn't like you can't get bad luck with root too lol. Is it possible you haven't played P99 since roots always held for max duration? Maybe you still think roots always hold for max duration.

Obviously I know they don't always hold for full duration (unless the level difference and/or resist debuff is large enough). But you can simply spam Root. With lull you only get a chance to use it before combat. Something "going wrong" with lull (either a critical resist or other adds) means the skill has lost all of its value. Whereas with root, you get to constantly reapply. Root is a much better ability, serving all the "utility" function that a group needs the majority of the time.