Thoughts on end game raiding

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the raid scene has further homogonized into a machine of bots, clickies, bat phones, gina and more to degrade the "classic" experience. It actually used to be better here- an opinion from someone that has raided on and off here since 2011.

Adding changes that shore up the classic experience may be the best route to resolve some of the issues, as someone here mentioned already, while not crushing the "competition" aspect. Some of the problems I think most can agree on:

-Pulling raid mobs to the zone line to trivialize the raid encounter
-Training an entire zone to trivialize the raid encounter
-Having Bots for ALL roles parked at all meaningful spawn locations 24/7 ready to be activated by any random person
-Complete reliance on certain item clickies to trivialize the raid encounter (da idols)

You can't blame people that follow the path of least resistance to get their reward. This is human nature and collectively is pretty evident over the past 9 years here. Probably the biggest culprit is being stuck in the box for 9 years. The immediate solution would be to add new servers.

If there are no new servers coming, tackling the non-emergent player behaviors above would be a start. The reliance on the community to "shape up" and change their ways will likely never happen outside of GM intervention or some hard coded solution. Expecting this will always leave the GM's in a cycle of resolving petty CSR issues while players continue to exploit CSR to maybe get a rule lawyered in their favor. Here are some high level solutions:

-No more fighting raid encounters at zonelines to trivialize raid encounters
-No more training an entire zone to trivialize raid encounters. Force people to clear stuff someway, somehow
-No more unlimited access to all classes or provide some sort of throttle to this behavior. Maybe x amount of accounts accessible per IP.
-Nerf item recharging, completely remove the mechanic as it's non-immersive and doesn't make sense. People never exploited it in classic to the extent they do here

Fixing the above won't resolve everything, but it'll leave the raid experience in a better place. As it stands- You log in for 10 minutes after a bat phone, do your RNG against the "competition" via clickies, training, engaging with your bot army, and then hopefully enjoy your deposited raid mob at the zoneline.

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Please put in a guide application...

[branamil]

Sorry, but hoping the raiding scene gets better by tinkering with the server code is not going to happen. The development staff is already overburdened and working for FREE on an ancient code base. The desire to mess with raid mobs and items are approaching 0. Not to mention, meddling with this mechanics ALWAYS has unintended consequences. You're expecting WoW level of support and yet you pay $0 a month. Read the patch notes. It's like 2-3 guys, not an army.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the raid scene has further homogonized into a machine of bots, clickies, bat phones, gina and more to degrade the "classic" experience. It actually used to be better here- an opinion from someone that has raided on and off here since 2011.

Adding changes that shore up the classic experience may be the best route to resolve some of the issues, as someone here mentioned already, while not crushing the "competition" aspect. Some of the problems I think most can agree on:

-Pulling raid mobs to the zone line to trivialize the raid encounter
-Training an entire zone to trivialize the raid encounter
-Having Bots for ALL roles parked at all meaningful spawn locations 24/7 ready to be activated by any random person
-Complete reliance on certain item clickies to trivialize the raid encounter (da idols)

You can't blame people that follow the path of least resistance to get their reward. This is human nature and collectively is pretty evident over the past 9 years here. Probably the biggest culprit is being stuck in the box for 9 years. The immediate solution would be to add new servers.

If there are no new servers coming, tackling the non-emergent player behaviors above would be a start. The reliance on the community to "shape up" and change their ways will likely never happen outside of GM intervention or some hard coded solution. Expecting this will always leave the GM's in a cycle of resolving petty CSR issues while players continue to exploit CSR to maybe get a rule lawyered in their favor. Here are some high level solutions:

-No more fighting raid encounters at zonelines to trivialize raid encounters
-No more training an entire zone to trivialize raid encounters. Force people to clear stuff someway, somehow
-No more unlimited access to all classes or provide some sort of throttle to this behavior. Maybe x amount of accounts accessible per IP.
-Nerf item recharging, completely remove the mechanic as it's non-immersive and doesn't make sense. People never exploited it in classic to the extent they do here

Fixing the above won't resolve everything, but it'll leave the raid experience in a better place. As it stands- You log in for 10 minutes after a bat phone, do your RNG against the "competition" via clickies, training, engaging with your bot army, and then hopefully enjoy your deposited raid mob at the zoneline.

/\

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry, but hoping the raiding scene gets better by tinkering with the server code is not going to happen. The development staff is already overburdened and working for FREE on an ancient code base. The desire to mess with raid mobs and items are approaching 0. Not to mention, meddling with this mechanics ALWAYS has unintended consequences. You're expecting WoW level of support and yet you pay $0 a month. Read the patch notes. It's like 2-3 guys, not an army.

True that. Uninstalled EQ from my comp and will forumquest for a bit. I got my nostalgia fix and accomplished more than I ever did in era.

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[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry, but hoping the raiding scene gets better by tinkering with the server code is not going to happen. The development staff is already overburdened and working for FREE on an ancient code base. The desire to mess with raid mobs and items are approaching 0. Not to mention, meddling with this mechanics ALWAYS has unintended consequences. You're expecting WoW level of support and yet you pay $0 a month. Read the patch notes. It's like 2-3 guys, not an army.

The suggested fixes literally takes 30 min to implement: putting leash distance on a mobs, disabling recharges etc.

[branamil]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The suggested fixes literally takes 30 min to implement: putting leash distance on a mobs, disabling recharges etc.

Interesting. Could you point out which line you would change?

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server

[baakss]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting. Could you point out which line you would change?

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server

Lol @ 30 minutes to implement.

[MamaKan]

Recharges play an intrical part in regulating p99 economy. I believe it would be a huge mistake to remove this mechanic.

[Sonderbeast]

end game mechanics seem fine to me

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Sonderbeast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

end game mechanics seem fine to me

coo

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by MamaKan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Recharges play an intrical part in regulating p99 economy. I believe it would be a huge mistake to remove this mechanic.

The economy means shit. It's a game, play it. Remove recharges and stop trivializing already trivial content.