New Mage, should I continue or pick another class?

[Vermineux]

I played a Wizard back on live and always found myself being a bit envious of Mages, mostly because of the epic and their cool AA abilities. That being the case I decided to roll a Mage to scratch my EQ itch, but I'm reading a lot of troubling stuff about Mages.

I know there will never be AAs on this EMU and that's fine, and I also realize Mages at 60 in raids are basically mod rod/COTH bots and nothing else, I can accept that, but I'm level 16 at the moment and I have 600p farmed up, and I want to make a final decision about class before I go any further.

1.) The epic is basically unattainable for most people because of the Earth staff. I almost had my Wiz epic back in the day, and I also had a Rogue and Paladin with their epics. I don't mind doing the work for an epic, but if it's something that pretty much isn't going to happen, that's a huge bummer. I'll never be a gigantic raider that plays for years and attends every single raid to be able to earn the DKP/guild credit and trust while also waiting in line for the drop, so it basically takes it off the table for me. I could let this go, but...

2.) Pet aggro dumping upon death is busted. This is a nail in the coffin for the class for me, especially since it seems like its been months now without the problem even being acknowledged. Does this not basically destroy a Mages ability to solo anything level appropriate at anything other than low levels? I know one of the main strengths of the class is farming raw plat from massacring greens, but when it comes to EXP soloing in anything near a safe/efficient way, how can Mages pull this off with chain casting pets not working due to the aggro accruing to the Mage on pet death/go away? The only idea I had was using the air elemental and hoping the stun makes up for the problem, but then that's just a bandage.

I do plan on doing a lot of grouping, but I also really want to be able to dungeon dive and solo some camps at mid/high levels. Given the aggro problem, combined with the other concerns, should I just call it quits now and roll another class? I was thinking Iksar Necro, even though its uninspiring to me and seems really pedestrian ;p. I was also thinking of playing a Paladin again since tanking is extremely fun, and Pally gear is pretty cheap. I can't make up my mind...

Does anyone think the aggro issue has a chance of being fixed? Do the devs on here have a history of ignoring stuff for a while, not even acknowledging it and then out of nowhere patching it?

Anyhow, I'd appreciate others thoughts and opinions on this. Cheers.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Vermineux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also realize Mages at 60 in raids are basically mod rod/COTH bots and nothing else

This isn't exactly correct. In many encounters (especially in Velious) it's true that we can't summon pets, so we just drop mod rods and CotH all day. But for plenty of other raids we absolutely want to bust out our pets (eg. Plane of Sky).

Originally Posted by Vermineux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1.) The epic is basically unattainable for most people because of the Earth staff. I almost had my Wiz epic back in the day, and I also had a Rogue and Paladin with their epics. I don't mind doing the work for an epic, but if it's something that pretty much isn't going to happen, that's a huge bummer. I'll never be a gigantic raider that plays for years and attends every single raid to be able to earn the DKP/guild credit and trust while also waiting in line for the drop, so it basically takes it off the table for me. I could let this go, but...

That's mostly correct, but it's worth noting that the recent introduction of Hate minis will help some. More importantly though, you don't have to be "a gigantic raider that plays for years and attends every single raid" to get a staff. You just have to be in one of several top guilds (one that can do Hate minis), go to as many raids as you can, and be patient.

Keep in mind that once you get 60 there's very little to do but raid, so you may very well want to spend lots of time raiding then.

Originally Posted by Vermineux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2.) Pet aggro dumping upon death is busted. This is a nail in the coffin for the class for me, especially since it seems like its been months now without the problem even being acknowledged. Does this not basically destroy a Mages ability to solo anything level appropriate at anything other than low levels? I know one of the main strengths of the class is farming raw plat from massacring greens, but when it comes to EXP soloing in anything near a safe/efficient way, how can Mages pull this off with chain casting pets not working due to the aggro accruing to the Mage on pet death/go away? The only idea I had was using the air elemental and hoping the stun makes up for the problem, but then that's just a bandage.

This in no way stops us from soloing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Use an earth pet, start casting a new pet when your pet is at 10%-ish (it will vary depending on how hard it's being hit), type "/pet get lost" ... but don't ht enter.

If your old pet hasn't died right before the new pet is about to appear, hit enter to kill it. The new pet will arrive and proc a root soon, quickly taking agro.

Originally Posted by Vermineux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

should I just call it quits now and roll another class? I was thinking Iksar Necro, even though its uninspiring to me and seems really pedestrian ;p. I was also thinking of playing a Paladin again since tanking is extremely fun, and Pally gear is pretty cheap. I can't make up my mind...

Play what you want to play. Necros do a million things: DoT, summon, FD, root, fear, harmshield, heal, rez, twitch, etc. Mages are pretty one-dimensional: we summon (pets, people, and mod rods). But no one else can do what we can do, and the class can still be fun even if it is a bit monotonous.

Originally Posted by Vermineux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does anyone think the aggro issue has a chance of being fixed? Do the devs on here have a history of ignoring stuff for a while, not even acknowledging it and then out of nowhere patching it?

It simply comes down to whether someone can prove the agro thing worked differently in classic. If they can, I can all but guarantee Nilbog will want to fix it, because ... look in the upper-left corner of the screen.

[Ripqozko]

Sky is group content not a raid , hope that helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

For the agro dump issue, you could try kiting the mob with JBoots. This would be restricted to outdoor zones, but you could just run away after summoning the second pet, and let it beat the mob down until death, or your pet regains agro.

If you got deep pockets, you could also get a bio orb. Just blind the mob so it will attack the nearest enemy, which would be the chained pet.

Could also try chaining earth pets, the root proc may keep the mob in place between pets. Could try using https://wiki.project1999.com/Herbalist%27s_Spade as well if you can afford to take a few hits, see if you get the proc off.

[Echomez]

I leveled up a mage about 6 months ago on Green. At the time, I had enough of playing super twitchy, intensive classes and just wanted something very chill and relaxed. It was awesome... I had such an easy time leveling up, farming, etc. Mages are so strong the entire time because of the pets and great damage capabilities. I found the class to be extremely one-dimensional. The mage is in the upper 50's now, after spending a long time in the Hole, among other places. It's still fun to play in groups -- which is my favorite part of the game. The pets are just a beast, plus you can haste them, give it Muzzle of Mardu, a great damage shield, etc. If you enjoy group content and want an absolute powerhouse dps class that is very chill and relaxing to play -- maybe you talk to friends on Discord a lot or you have shows going on a 2nd monitor -- then mage is the class to play.

2.) Pet aggro dumping upon death is busted. when it comes to EXP soloing in anything near a safe/efficient way, how can Mages pull this off with chain casting pets not working due to the aggro accruing to the Mage on pet death/go away?

Since I am on Green, there is no chain-casting pets. You can't begin casting a pet until your current one is dead. So this means that all of the chain-casting tactics that were possible on Blue don't work on Green. I am fine with that b/c I don't have a mage to solo loot camps in a dungeon.. if I wanted to do that, I would have made a necro or a shaman, but those are a *LOT* more involved classes without the raw dps burn potential.

However, I do get to go to loot camps with friends, as duo's or trios, or with guild groups... and the pet is a monster; CotH is *extremely* useful for getting friends into camp, etc. I have the water and air staves, so being able to summon a beefed up water pet is awesome. The 57 earth pet is very tanky with it's root capabilities if needed, and it doesn't take much mana to summon one if it dies. I really enjoy playing a mage in groups. It rounds out a duo or trio and is just very relaxing without having to work too hard if you like that kind of gameplay.

I also really want to be able to dungeon dive and solo some camps at mid/high levels. Given the aggro problem, combined with the other concerns, should I just call it quits now and roll another class?

Yeah, you are not going to be doing much of that on a mage solo. The only CC you have comes from the earth pet's root. I personally don't want to mess with root nets, especially since you can't chain pets on Green. If you just had one other person to go to a camp with you, then you instantly become a *POWERHOUSE* duo (or trio) of rolling destruction. It's so much fun being able to round out a group and hang out with a couple of people in high level camps. It's the part of the game I enjoy the most by far.

As long as you have someone to root mobs, and maybe help heal the pet, then you can destroy all kinds of camps at high levels. The mage is an absolute monster of a class, but they can only do one or two things. You really need someone to provide CC and maybe some heals unless you want to churn pets -- which is fine b/c malachite is so cheap, I carry at least one backpack full at all times.

If you absolutely have to be able to solo camps, then roll a necro or a shaman.. the latter will take tens of thousands of plat to get to where they can solo *well*. Shamans really need their epic and torpor to come into power... at a minimum they need the epic. Why is that? It's quite simple really. The shaman epic dot does the same damage (basically) as other classes but in *HALF* the time required. If I remember correctly, it's basically Splurt but with a tick or two taken off. The whole dot is used up within 90 seconds for 1425 dmg. source: https://wiki.project1999.com/Curse_of_the_Spirits

If you look at other classes whose epics also provide a dot such as a necro or a druid, theirs takes double the time to tick off. This means that shamans can churn through mobs doing double the damage for free on a clicky compared to others. Combine this with their ability to slow mobs 75% or so, use canni for mana regen, and use Torpor (if you can ever get it), and Shamans can solo some amazing things, but that is just not the playstyle I wanted. I don't enjoy having to obsessively buff people over and over ad nauseum. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze to me, which is why I chose the mage personally.

If you can handle the obsessive-compulsive nature of constantly keeping a shield up at all times, then you might enjoy a chanter. I used to play one to the mid-50s, but I grew so frustrated with the style of gameplay. Firstly, I personally don't enjoy the game playing solo all the time trying to camp mobs with no one else to talk to (on the subject of solo'ing loot).

Secondly, there are so many buffs and spells to manage, with only 8 spell slots, you are constantly changing spells every 20-30 seconds, swapping things in and out, always having to keep a shield up, bedlam, etc, then having to manage a pet, roots, haste (on the pet), keeping mobs mez'd, using Lull + Blur which can be a huge pain to get it to stick, etc. It's a *VERY* active playstyle.

You can't take a phone call; you can't put a show on the 2nd monitor; you can't check email; you can't look at the wiki; you can't even get up to take a quick bio break.. if you turn away for 15 seconds, the charm pet can break & you have a handful of seconds before you are splattered all over the ground. I just hated playing it at high levels. I really enjoyed being in a group, managing mez on mobs, interacting with other people, etc. I ended up getting my chanter to where i wanted him and realize I hated playing him solo, so the only time I would ever log on would be to get a group in the Hole or when a friend wanted to go to Seb, etc. This is just me and doesn't reflect anyone else's experience. And there is no way in all hell that I would ever play a chanter in a raid. I tried that a couple of times.

If I were going to start all over, and I wanted to focus on soloing or even duo/trio'ing, and I wanted to go after loot... without a second thought, without a single doubt I would roll an Iksar necro. They have such a huge toolkit, root/rot, nukes, can twitch mana to healers, summon a corpse, get FD which is huge, heal themselves, get the best mana regen in the game hands down. Necros are just amazing in loot camps especially with another person or two to help out, but they can still do so much solo, with the ability to recover, plus they get a pet and undead charm... that would be my choice for the play-style. One of these days I might get around to rolling one after my cleric is leveled up.

This is just my opinion; everyone else has their own. Take it with a grain of salt, etc.

[Vermineux]

Thank you for the thoughtful replies, guys. I'll take all this into consideration.

One more question:

At what point do you recommend that I start to worry about killing enemies with no pet out, or doing 51%+ damage, as opposed to just mowing enemies down and not worrying about the exp hit? I imagine the answer is sooner rather than later so I don't miss exp, but at low levels its so easy to just buzzsaw blues that it hasn't mattered. Any specific range where I should start caring?

[Guesty07]

Of course you can chain pets on green, however due to to agro mechanics not working as they should, as is classic, it's abit more difficult. Earth pet root helps alot with mobs that can be rooted. You do not need to chain pets AT ALL below level 50. Fire pet will eat everything for lunch

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by Echomez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since I am on Green, there is no chain-casting pets. You can't begin casting a pet until your current one is dead.

You can start casting new pet and right before cast finishes you type /pet get lost.

Anyway, besides coth mages are terrible at everything, avoid them.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can start casting new pet and right before cast finishes you type /pet get lost.

Anyway, besides coth mages are terrible at everything, avoid them.

You should be able to make this a hotkey on the socials tab as well of your ability window or whatever it’s called

[Echomez]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can start casting new pet and right before cast finishes you type /pet get lost.

Anyway, besides coth mages are terrible at everything, avoid them.

Okay so this is some new information that I just found out. I haven't played much for about 3-4 months. I just logged in and tried this... apparently you can chain pets now on Green which is pretty awesome.

When I leveled up, I was under the impression that it was completely disabled for the life of the server because it was suppose to be a "classic" change. I guess it gets patched in at some point in the timeline. So that's good to know at least for someone else who might be looking at this in the future.