Bard or Ranger?

[mattydef]

It's safe to say rangers are capable of out dpsing monks and monks are capable of beating rangers, usually based on gear and the always important RNGesus.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by deezy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I spent more time making this than I think it was worth, but here are some parses. I filtered out anybody using an offensive disc or if the player wasn't at the fight since the start.

Derakor the Vindicator in 179s, 193k @1080 | #7 Ranger 11k | #8 Ranger 11k | #9 Monk 10k | #11 Monk 9k
Derakor the Vindicator in 178s, 201k @1128 | #8 Monk 10k | #9 Ranger 10k | #11 Ranger 9k | #13 Monk 9k
Derakor the Vindicator in 158s, 165k @1047 | #4 Ranger 11k | #5 Monk 10k | #8 Ranger 9k | #9 Ranger 9k | #10 Monk 8k
Derakor the Vindicator in 81s, 127k @1568 | #11 Ranger 5k {X} | #12 Ranger 5k | #15 Monk 4k | #19 Monk 3k
Derakor the Vindicator in 96s, 204k @2127 | #13 Monk 6k | #14 Ranger 6k | #15 Ranger 6k | #16 Monk 5k | #18 Monk 5k | #19 Monk 5k {X}

King Tormax in 355s, 492k @1385 | #8 Ranger 20k | #10 Monk 18k | #11 Monk 18k | #12 Ranger 18k | #13 Monk 18k | #15 Ranger 16k | #19 Ranger 13k | #20 Monk 12k
King Tormax in 445s, 515k @1158 | #10 Ranger 23k | #11 Ranger 22k | #14 Monk 18k | #18 Ranger 16k
King Tormax in 359s, 502k @1400 | #11 Ranger 17k | #12 Ranger 17k | #13 Monk 16k | #14 Monk 16k | #15 Monk 16k | #16 Monk 16k | #17 Monk 16k | #19 Ranger 14k
King Tormax in 271s, 475k @1752 | #11 Monk 15k | #12 Ranger 14k | #13 Monk 13k | #15 Monk 13k | #16 Monk 13k | #17 Monk 12k | #18 Monk 12k | #22 Monk 11k

Thanks for all the effort you put into this man, it’s appreciated. What is the general gear level for these melee? It actually seems on the low end. With the exception of 2 Vindi kills the highest ranger for every other fight is failing to crack 60 dps. The highest (a vindi) is 69.62 dps and the second highest (also a vindi) is just over 60dps. I’m not sure what guild you’re in but this seems really low. KT and Vindi have higher ac but I’d expect higher numbers if you’re in that ToV geared (to any significant degree) bracket. In excluding characters under disc I’m assuming trueshot was also excluded. Any of these rangers routinely use BFG? Do any of your monks have their monk weapons?

I’ll try to dig up some parses of my own but we’ve got a guild monk that routinely puts up a lot more ... granted he’s got tunare fist primary and stick offhand.

I’ll check from our Vindi run over the weekend. I’m pretty sure I had my logs turned on.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by mattydef [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's safe to say rangers are capable of out dpsing monks and monks are capable of beating rangers, usually based on gear and the always important RNGesus.

How does a Ranger out-DPS an equally skilled and equally geared Monk? Do they have to combine their dots and nukes or something?

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does a Ranger out-DPS an equally skilled and equally geared Monk? Do they have to combine their dots and nukes or something?

dots and nukes will lower your dps on most things

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by deezy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dots and nukes will lower your dps on most things

Okay, let's forget the nuke and just consider that the Ranger applies DoD and then wades right in. How is a Ranger beating a Monk in the melee department in this case?

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for all the effort you put into this man, it’s appreciated. What is the general gear level for these melee? It actually seems on the low end. With the exception of 2 Vindi kills the highest ranger for every other fight is failing to crack 60 dps. The highest (a vindi) is 69.62 dps and the second highest (also a vindi) is just over 60dps. I’m not sure what guild you’re in but this seems really low.

Core and Aftermath

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

KT and Vindi have higher ac but I’d expect higher numbers if you’re in that ToV geared (to any significant degree) bracket. In excluding characters under disc I’m assuming trueshot was also excluded. Any of these rangers routinely use BFG? Do any of your monks have their monk weapons?

BFG/Trueshot is used a lot on vindi, but all of those were filtered out. I'd assume Core and Aftermath monks have good weapons, but it's never something I kept up with.

[Ripqozko]

an average parse i had pre tov weapons was 65-75dps in raw melee, with tov weapons up to 85 in pure melee.

this is on vindi

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay, let's forget the nuke and just consider that the Ranger applies DoD and then wades right in. How is a Ranger beating a Monk in the melee department in this case?

By meleeing.

Sorry to give a vague answer, but I don't know why. Rangers and monks are on two different damage tables. Ranger's share their damage table with warriors and monks are on a unique damage table. My understanding of either one is imprecise.

[mattydef]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does a Ranger out-DPS an equally skilled and equally geared Monk? Do they have to combine their dots and nukes or something?

Equally skilled and equally geared is going to come down to RNG, which is probably a way bigger factor than most people give credit for. I would honestly say in most scenarios the monk will more than likely edge out the ranger due to flying kick.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

an average parse i had pre tov weapons was 65-75dps in raw melee, with tov weapons up to 85 in pure melee.

this is on vindi

One of our monks (BiS primary other offhand) floats in similar mid 80s territory sustained on high ac velious mobs. I’ll see if I can dig up the parse later when I get home. I’d be interested to see that monk in action with a shaman cast primal buff for the duration of the fight.

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does a Ranger out-DPS an equally skilled and equally geared Monk? Do they have to combine their dots and nukes or something?

That’s the tantalizing question that nobody seems to know the answer to. I’ve seen Aikon’s dps in action and it’s pretty obscene. I have seen rangers put up higher numbers with the exception a lucky standard bow trueshot run. I have seen some really ludicrous numbers using BFG but both of those are fairly narrow situations that generally don’t apply (2 minutes up 72 min refresh), one of which requiring MQ result for a component that is no longer available. There are still some pieces out there to MQ I’d imagine but for most rangers is never going to happen if they don’t already have it.

I’ve seen some strong melee parses from rangers but I’m still in incredibly skeptical that a BiS ranger can consistently top out a BiS monk. 15/18 and 16/19 is just nuts.