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  #71  
Old 05-02-2021, 06:35 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Originally Posted by ghost wolves [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
New Enchanter here. Just started around a month ago and reached 31 today.

I haven't touched charm at all and have soloed all the way here using only the enchanter pet.

I tried charming the crocs at 18 and it was terrible. Constant charm breaks and adds from ghouls, sand giants, that wandering diseased man, etc. It was a nightmare and I was gating out constantly. I went back to the animation and didn't touch charm again.

I've been doing guards ever since, and with a camped spawn, there's no advantage to using a charmed pet really, since you'll have enough mana by the time it respawns allowing you to nuke it down past 50% with the animation.

When you use an animation, you can haste it, give it weapons, and go AFK all with 100% safety. A hasted animation is still pretty solid DPS at very little mana cost. You don't have any of the constant maintenance of recharming, retashing, etc. It's a totally fine way to play even if it's not 100% optimal.

I'll pick up charming when I feel it's better (and get a GGR) but so far, don't see the hype.

Also, the charm soloing thing wasn't even a thing people did much in classic. You can take an Enchanter all the way up and never mess with it if you don't want to. Not saying you should, as you'd be missing out on a very powerful aspect of your class, but if you think it's too much for you, you can still enjoy the class just fine without it. Nothing wrong with leveling "slower". Once you get to 60 it doesn't matter how you got there.
Around level 35 for me I noticed that the animation, when hasted and the mob was slowed, would take more than 50% of its health in damage (variable depending on its avoidance) per blue kill. So usually after 1 blue, I'd have to sit and wait for its health to trickle back to what I would consider a safe level to do another. There's always the option to protect the pet's health more with mana, and there's 2 routes to do this (beyond slowing): 1. Toss some big nukes or 2. Alternate stuns. Method 2 will conserve more total mana, but cost 50% exp, method 1 will use the most mana, but save you the 50% exp

Once you get the hang of reverse charming, you are guaranteed to get 100% of the exp, can kill a blue faster than the animation can (because at around level 35ish mobs do more damage/hit than pets and it the gap only widens from there), and barring charm/root breaks has a net cost of zero mana or can actually result in you finishing a kill with more mana than when you pulled. So this becomes the fastest way to exp. Although for me, if I do it for hours, it can become a little boring, unless in a dangerous dungeon

It absolutely does not require a GGR. I have bound /pet report health to my pet attack and /pet back off commands, so my chat is always being spammed with my pet's current health. All you have to do is make sure the mob you are killing is rooted, and pull your pet back when it's around 10% health. Root will hold the enemy mob for at least 30 seconds if you timed the last one well. This means your invisibility spell could take literally 25 seconds to cast and you would still get it off, breaking charm just the same as a GGR. The GGR really only matters in intense dungeon scenarios where multiple unrooted mobs are beating on your pet and its health is plummeting and you are about to lose the pet, its exp and its drops. And that's a scenario you don't have to be in if you don't want to

If you are getting lots of charm breaks then most likely you are going for targets that are too high level. CHA really doesn't matter all that much, what matters is picking targets that are barely blue, or even exp green ideally. Not dark blues if you can avoid it, and certainly nothing higher. And of course always tash first
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  #72  
Old 05-03-2021, 12:59 AM
ghost wolves ghost wolves is offline
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Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Around level 35 for me I noticed that the animation, when hasted and the mob was slowed, would take more than 50% of its health in damage (variable depending on its avoidance) per blue kill. So usually after 1 blue, I'd have to sit and wait for its health to trickle back to what I would consider a safe level to do another. There's always the option to protect the pet's health more with mana, and there's 2 routes to do this (beyond slowing): 1. Toss some big nukes or 2. Alternate stuns. Method 2 will conserve more total mana, but cost 50% exp, method 1 will use the most mana, but save you the 50% exp

Once you get the hang of reverse charming, you are guaranteed to get 100% of the exp, can kill a blue faster than the animation can (because at around level 35ish mobs do more damage/hit than pets and it the gap only widens from there), and barring charm/root breaks has a net cost of zero mana or can actually result in you finishing a kill with more mana than when you pulled. So this becomes the fastest way to exp. Although for me, if I do it for hours, it can become a little boring, unless in a dangerous dungeon

It absolutely does not require a GGR. I have bound /pet report health to my pet attack and /pet back off commands, so my chat is always being spammed with my pet's current health. All you have to do is make sure the mob you are killing is rooted, and pull your pet back when it's around 10% health. Root will hold the enemy mob for at least 30 seconds if you timed the last one well. This means your invisibility spell could take literally 25 seconds to cast and you would still get it off, breaking charm just the same as a GGR. The GGR really only matters in intense dungeon scenarios where multiple unrooted mobs are beating on your pet and its health is plummeting and you are about to lose the pet, its exp and its drops. And that's a scenario you don't have to be in if you don't want to

If you are getting lots of charm breaks then most likely you are going for targets that are too high level. CHA really doesn't matter all that much, what matters is picking targets that are barely blue, or even exp green ideally. Not dark blues if you can avoid it, and certainly nothing higher. And of course always tash first
I had heard level 35 was kind of the cut off point for the animations as well. Thanks for the write up. Some great tips here. I do plan on getting into charming eventually. I just wanted to tell the OP that while a lot of people say "charm solo or nothing" (which is really intimidating for them) you can do just fine without it at least for awhile.

Do you know of a good charm spot for 35?
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  #73  
Old 05-03-2021, 01:18 AM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Originally Posted by ghost wolves [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I had heard level 35 was kind of the cut off point for the animations as well. Thanks for the write up. Some great tips here. I do plan on getting into charming eventually. I just wanted to tell the OP that while a lot of people say "charm solo or nothing" (which is really intimidating for them) you can do just fine without it at least for awhile.

Do you know of a good charm spot for 35?
I was doing splitpaw, although that might almost be getting low by 35. It's a great zone to practice if you can get lucky enough to have the top part to yourself (very hard to get on Green, will have to be during off peak hours). Tons of wide open space and easy to avoid wandering adds. Something similar would be ideal, something outdoors with lots of space

After that I went to Solusek from 35-39 almost entirely solo, which I don't recommend for trying to learn the ropes. Lotta adds, lots see through invis, and the roamers truck around with SOW up. Was a fun challenge though

I don't really know many good spots, kind of just randomly picking one and trying it. I think I may check out some Kunark zones next
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  #74  
Old 05-03-2021, 08:38 AM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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You can easily do Paw until 41. Judges camp op.

The ZEM is too good.

@OP - just stick with it. It gets easier with every level. 29 is the big one with clarity.
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  #75  
Old 05-03-2021, 10:56 AM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
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Originally Posted by ghost wolves [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I had heard level 35 was kind of the cut off point for the animations as well. Thanks for the write up. Some great tips here. I do plan on getting into charming eventually. I just wanted to tell the OP that while a lot of people say "charm solo or nothing" (which is really intimidating for them) you can do just fine without it at least for awhile.

Do you know of a good charm spot for 35?
Tecmos gator alley video shows him there at 31, but it sounds like he's on the early side; I think it's still good till 36 or so? It's a popular spot so you might find it camped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc7DHel91cM
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  #76  
Old 05-03-2021, 11:31 AM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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It would be good to try the occasional dungeon too to get used to breaking camps before it becomes much more stressful/risky like Howling Stones where I hear you can die and then be locked out of even getting back to your body due to the key being on your body. That is just crazy to me, and I personally wouldn’t attempt it because I don’t have the money to be able to keep a WC cap on me always for the times when even gate isn’t fast enough...

Enchanters have the luxury of being able to go around everywhere in the dungeon invis, something other pet classes really don’t. Once they settle in they have to summon a pet, which means re-summoning over and over until a high level one usually. Then if they want to move, they either have to clear everything to their new spot or ditch that pet to invis. I guess necro’s can just run through and FD, but pretty sure the mobs will still kill that pet. Enchanters can move all over the dungeon on a whim with invis and IVU

I personally had a lot of fun sneaking around invis and then monitoring pathers until I memorized their movements. Then I would tell myself “ok gnome vision through the wall, the pather just left. That means I have exactly 5 minutes to lull/break this camp of 3, and stabilize the situation before he gets back. He’s going to come through that door so sit with my back to this wall in case I don’t have the situation stabilized yet so he can’t backstab me when he comes in”

All the sneaking around, monitoring mob movements, and planning elaborate camp breaks is really what cemented enchanter as the class for me. Prior to that everything was kinda tedious and boring, even charming outside. This changes the game into almost like a Solid Snake stealth/spy game. Great to break up the monotony
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  #77  
Old 05-03-2021, 05:26 PM
tadkins tadkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
@OP - just stick with it. It gets easier with every level. 29 is the big one with clarity.
Sad to report that I took the coward's way out. I tried, I just couldn't get into it. Stopped at level 8, the same as my last enchanter, lol.

Right now I'm just focusing on grinding plat on my mage to get JBoots for my wizard. I figure a couple of insurance items like Jboots and a Solist's wand to make my wizard not totally helpless if he ran out of mana or got resists on a mob would make it a lot more fun, and I plan to try that again.

I do thank you guys for all the help and advice you gave me, my confidence issues just continued to scream that I would not be able to handle this later, if I was struggling now. Even the best enchanters say they die a lot. Maybe it would be different if I could charm a cleric PC to keep rezzing me or something, lol.
Last edited by tadkins; 05-03-2021 at 05:45 PM..
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  #78  
Old 05-03-2021, 11:09 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Sad to report that I took the coward's way out. I tried, I just couldn't get into it. Stopped at level 8, the same as my last enchanter, lol.

Right now I'm just focusing on grinding plat on my mage to get JBoots for my wizard. I figure a couple of insurance items like Jboots and a Solist's wand to make my wizard not totally helpless if he ran out of mana or got resists on a mob would make it a lot more fun, and I plan to try that again.

I do thank you guys for all the help and advice you gave me, my confidence issues just continued to scream that I would not be able to handle this later, if I was struggling now. Even the best enchanters say they die a lot. Maybe it would be different if I could charm a cleric PC to keep rezzing me or something, lol.
Hey man as long as the character is there you can always come back to it someday. I’d ask you to sell me your GGR but I still can’t afford and even if I could, not sure if that’s really what I’d want to spend that much pp on
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  #79  
Old 05-03-2021, 11:59 PM
tadkins tadkins is offline
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Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Hey man as long as the character is there you can always come back to it someday. I’d ask you to sell me your GGR but I still can’t afford and even if I could, not sure if that’s really what I’d want to spend that much pp on
I told someone this last night, that it was just hard to get into thematically. I really am more of a person that would rather just blow something up than try to play mind chess with it. Been trying to wrap my head around a theme I wanted to give the character but it was just tough. Even in most other RPG style games it's hard to find a spellcaster that does what the enchanter does. I really am more of a fan of just hurling fireballs. xD

But yup the wizard does seem like a more fitting and a far more chill class to play, I just need to stop letting frustration get the better of me. I gave up on the other wizard too quick after that night a nearby group laughed while they stood there waiting for me to die so they could take the mob I worked down to 50% health. Was left crying IRL after that, shocked that people would do that to each other on this server, and may have acted too impulsively. This new wizard is coming more equipped with tools to help alleviate those types of issues though.
Last edited by tadkins; 05-04-2021 at 12:01 AM..
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  #80  
Old 05-04-2021, 01:06 AM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I told someone this last night, that it was just hard to get into thematically. I really am more of a person that would rather just blow something up than try to play mind chess with it. Been trying to wrap my head around a theme I wanted to give the character but it was just tough. Even in most other RPG style games it's hard to find a spellcaster that does what the enchanter does. I really am more of a fan of just hurling fireballs. xD

But yup the wizard does seem like a more fitting and a far more chill class to play, I just need to stop letting frustration get the better of me. I gave up on the other wizard too quick after that night a nearby group laughed while they stood there waiting for me to die so they could take the mob I worked down to 50% health. Was left crying IRL after that, shocked that people would do that to each other on this server, and may have acted too impulsively. This new wizard is coming more equipped with tools to help alleviate those types of issues though.
I’m pretty inexperienced with both, but I would rank your mage above wizard on the “chill” factor. I feel like wizard would be a good fit for someone who enjoys adventuring and questing, due to being able to get around everywhere easy. And of course for some big ole nukes too
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