Lets make green raiding classic!

[Raev]

Motec, what do you think of my League idea?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=329201

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't around for the R/C rotations or whatever, was that player conceived or did the GM's think it up and force it on everyone?

It was a little of both: Class C and R was mandated by the GM's but were more like guild tiers than strict rotations: The classes set aside certain spawns so that a single group couldn't monopolize absolutely everything. If you were class C, you had to leave the class R spawns alone, killing a class C spawn promoted your guild to that class, and so forth, free-for-all were open to all. There could be (and were) numerous guilds within a class. The middle-tier players themselves made the class R spawns a rotation which was the principle reason it eventually fell apart, some of the bigger "class R" guilds fell prey to the pixel sickness and wanted to stop sharing and monopolize most/all of those spawns instead of trying to compete with class C. The failure of the class R rotation effectively turned it into a set of semi-private spawns for a couple of the bigger class R guilds, leading to the entire system being scrapped shortly thereafter then Velious opened.

At the time I was mainly surprised the class R rotation lasted as long as it did. I figured from the start the pixel-sick folks would break it. Rotations don't tend to work too well within P99's community without staff support.

Danth

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was a little of both: Class C and R was mandated by the GM's but were more like guild tiers than strict rotations: The classes set aside certain spawns so that a single group couldn't monopolize absolutely everything. If you were class C, you had to leave the class R spawns alone, killing a class C spawn promoted your guild to that class, and so forth, free-for-all were open to all. There could be (and were) numerous guilds within a class. The middle-tier players themselves made the class R spawns a rotation which was the principle reason it eventually fell apart, some of the bigger "class R" guilds fell prey to the pixel sickness and wanted to stop sharing and monopolize most/all of those spawns instead of trying to compete with class C. The failure of the class R rotation effectively turned it into a set of semi-private spawns for a couple of the bigger class R guilds, leading to the entire system being scrapped shortly thereafter then Velious opened.

At the time I was mainly surprised the class R rotation lasted as long as it did. I figured from the start the pixel-sick folks would break it. Rotations don't tend to work too well within P99's community without staff support.

Danth

If taken and BDA were promoted to C, Class R would of been fine. They should of never been R.

[Danth]

I agree, Ripgozko. Or at least it was natural for them to promote to class C once they got more pixel-sick. Then and now, I think using class R to hide from TMO while trying to lord it up over weakling little guilds who couldn't fight back was a chickenshit thing to do.

Danth

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree, Ripgozko. Or at least it was natural for them to promote to class C once they got more pixel-sick. Then and now, I think using class R to hide from TMO while trying to lord it up over weakling little guilds who couldn't fight back was a chickenshit thing to do.

Danth

Yep all the gatekeeping and such they threw on other class R guilds was dumb. They should of been competing against us in C.

[arsenalpow]

C versus R was a playstyle choice. Don’t get it twisted.

[Nuggie]

@Danth, I'm not going to look it up and I'm probably misremembering, but I thought the plan was always to scrap C/R/FFA when velious dropped.

I think there were some good arguments on both sides of the Class R debates. Each side trying to do well by their respective members. In the end there just wasn't enough give on both sides to hold it together. However, while it was around it was the best time to raid as a casual on Blue IMHO. Atleast until I quit in 2017.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Magerin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, this is going into RnF as it will likely be ignored because the zerg guild wont wanna do anything to remotely help smaller guilds.

Anyways, I'd like to offer the whole server a classic experience! To do this, I purpose that at any and all raid targets that any mobs your guild (or known associates given people who are willing to de-guild if this was to be enforced) gains agro on, it must be killed by or wiped your guild. Kiting a train at any point to leap frog or steal a mob should be completely removed from the game.

On live, GMs were really hardcore about train kiting and really disallowed it. As it was stated to me by GMs on live, any mobs you get agro on, you as the player (on this server the guild too), you the player (on this server the guild too) are responsible for what happened with it until it gets back to its spawn point or spawn path.

Watching a zerg guild with 100 players and 20 of them are focusing on the kite while the other 80 are killing the raid target simply because they have the numbers and the people to kite it is NOT classic. Tactics like this were not thing on live I'm almost certain given the 2 or 3 raids i attended that took hours to kill the dragon.

Lets put effort into making it classic raiding and not train kite and zerg the mob before the mobs reset (basically placing a train in the way of the raid mob after your guild rushes in behind the train kiter. This sort of thing will only get worse as time goes on for the life of green. Everyone know the timers, locations, strats, pathing, there isnt anything that completely new here. Lets make gaining mass agro and train kiting and using that same train as a fail safe to train the other guild(s) if their guild loses FTE 100% illegal!!!

Go do this on the blue server that's already been ruined by toxic low energy whiners

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go do this on the blue server that's already been ruined by toxic low energy whiners

Yep. That's what ruined blue. Dead as Red.

[Lutomorf]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I'm not making value judgements on anyone for sure. But on green its like there's no choice. On blue (or back in the old days) you can pick a different guild and still at least get something, still at least have a decent shot at your epic bottlenecks even if you were never getting Vulak or ST loot. Right now it seems like you're either ST or you might as well not raid.

Now this isn't ST's "fault" per se, or that this makes them evil (they might be IDK), and of course its contingent on other guilds to step up and give them better competition. But at this point it really seems like there's no stopping the monopoly. I'm doubting the green population increases drastically enough in Kunark to lead to other guilds with the size to really go up against them, hopefully/maybe I'm wrong about that part.

They have all the momentum, all the infrastructure, all the shared toons, and all the recruiting draw for both new applicants and poached members from competitors. Plus time is on their side because green is basically a speedrun race server rather than a timelocked forever community where you can choose to slowly build up an opposition force little by little.

So instead of picking which team of the server community you want to be a part of, you are either choosing ST or choosing not to raid. And that doesn't feel like a very dynamic or interesting raid experience for some of us.

Exactly, and with ST setting the schedule of all the UN guilds they make sure to never be threatened on that front. ST monopolizing all the content because they have a Zerg army is what we have to look forward to. The only way a guild will ever threaten ST is if they get the numbers and contest the UN kill schedule. As far as I can tell, the only non-UN raiding guild is Gathered Might.