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Old 02-16-2018, 03:52 PM
Tuurin Tuurin is offline
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Default Shaman melee damage

This is what is posted on the P99 wiki (https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Me...t_and_Damage)- seeing if anyone can confirm:

Damage Cap

Damage cap = (dmg * 2) where dmg is the weapon's stated damage.

levels 1-9 - damage cap is 20
levels 10-19 - damage cap is 28
Levels 20-29 - damage cap is 60
30+ - lifted, can do 2x weapon damage or more based on class

TODO: a recent patch implemented "class-specific" damage caps, so the general ones listed above may no longer apply for your class. For shaman's the new values seem to be 18 for levels 1-9, 24 for levels 10-19, 40 for levels 20-29, and 52 for level 30+ -- difficult to tell on this last one since strength is bringing in a lot of higher hits now, but 52 appears to be the modal hit still despite having a 29 dmg weapon. 4-19-2017***


Anybody confirm?As I read this, shaman have a lower damage cap than other classes? Or is that true of say druids or clerics?

If this is accurate, then wouldn't that mean for levels 20-29, any dmg/delay weapon with a damage over 20 would be wasted for a shaman, right? And then 30+, any weapon damage over 26 is wasted, right?
  #2  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:44 PM
xaxis xaxis is offline
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Well I'm not sure about the 20-29 and 30+ levels or the other classes, but I can say for sure that as a lvl 18/19 Troll Sham, whether with a str buff or not, I never hit for more than 24. That being said, I THINK you can do double wep damage up to the level restricted cap at any point because while I swing for 24 regularly, my weps are a Brell's Keg Popper (15dmg) and a Runewood Great Staff (22dmg).
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:17 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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You have it correct. I haven't leveled my Shaman up through those levels in years, but I recently leveled up a Ranger and asked basically the same question, only to have several people confirm the caps:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=285377

Really though, as a Shaman if you're relying on melee damage there's a very good chance you're doing it wrong.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:53 PM
Tuurin Tuurin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You have it correct. I haven't leveled my Shaman up through those levels in years, but I recently leveled up a Ranger and asked basically the same question, only to have several people confirm the caps:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=285377

Really though, as a Shaman if you're relying on melee damage there's a very good chance you're doing it wrong.
Yeah, I know about that thread- I actually answered your question on that thread and gave you that link lol. What I'm really wanting to know is if anyone has confirmed that the damage cap is class specific due to some kind of "recent patch".

Also, as a level 21 troll shaman with a Ikky bp and a PWC, meleeing is absolutely doing it right. What am I going to do, root/dot/nuke and med for 5 minutes after every fight? I can melee blues non-stop and not really lose health. Of course eventually with canni/pet/better dots I can potentially do better casting than meleeing, but with slows, heals and decent weapons shaman melee is not at all "doing it wrong."
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:36 PM
Nixtar Nixtar is offline
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I melee + slowed + one dotted my way close to 54. It was very efficient unless you fought undercon guards. I demolished the Oggok guards though with a Granite Face Grinder up to 51(or possibly 50). Some mobs are better than others though.

My shamie was an iksar without a fungi/ikky BP as well. No epic. On the topic of root/rotting... Let's be frank, many new shamans who are levelling up won't actually see their epic until lvl60 now. No more cheap easy access MQs sales so I find every single guide with the disclaimer "assuming you have your epic" to be completely useless.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:46 PM
Tuurin Tuurin is offline
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Dug around a bit and might have found the answer, although even in this thread there seems to be some uncertainty...

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=275279

Guess I'll just have to keep leveling to see how the cap goes. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:35 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuurin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yeah, I know about that thread- I actually answered your question on that thread and gave you that link lol. What I'm really wanting to know is if anyone has confirmed that the damage cap is class specific due to some kind of "recent patch".

Also, as a level 21 troll shaman with a Ikky bp and a PWC, meleeing is absolutely doing it right. What am I going to do, root/dot/nuke and med for 5 minutes after every fight? I can melee blues non-stop and not really lose health. Of course eventually with canni/pet/better dots I can potentially do better casting than meleeing, but with slows, heals and decent weapons shaman melee is not at all "doing it wrong."
Oh heh, sorry didn't notice your name.

However, I think you missed my point. I never said "shaman meleeing is a bad idea". On the contrary, shaman have three core playstyles, and that's one of them:
  • tank with self
  • tank with pet
  • root/rot

What I said was:
Quote:
relying on melee damage [=] a very good chance you're doing it wrong
I stand by that statement. Even with a PWC, try measuring how much melee damage you do over the course of a fight. Now measure how much damage your pet (ie. your best "DoT") does. Now measure how much DoT damage you do.

The exact numbers will vary by gear and level, but even so I can all but guarantee that most of the time your melee damage will be the lowest of the three. Why? Because I did the math with a BSH ... back before the proc nerf ... and even with that (equivalent of an) extra JBB hit per fight, melee still was the lowest of the three for me.

Melee might be 20% of your overall damage, and that's certainly not trivial, but if you switch to a weapon with higher damage/lower delay to account for the damage cap, you'll only get 20% of that difference as an increase to your overall DPS ... and in practice the difference between any two Shaman leveling weapons really won't be all that much.

So look, Shaman melee damage isn't meaningless, and I'm not saying Shaman shouldn't melee. I'm just saying we do (relatively) crap for damage when we hit things with our big stick/spear, and that's to be expected as we're worse at meleeing than every class except Clerics, Druids, and Int casters [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:19 PM
skarlorn skarlorn is offline
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Old 02-24-2018, 12:46 AM
xaxis xaxis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm just saying we do (relatively) crap for damage when we hit things with our big stick/spear, and that's to be expected as we're worse at meleeing than every class except Clerics, Druids, and Int casters [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Right but we also face tank better than all of those, and probably better than Rangers too, while also not having the mana efficiency or tactical abilities of most of those classes. We can't quad kite, can't charm, can't fear kite, expensive ass DD's, so while I agree that shaman probably shouldn't melee at a certain point, I would argue that a lot of your levels are going to be spent meleeing out of necessity/efficiency .
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:50 AM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xaxis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Right but we also face tank better than all of those, and probably better than Rangers too, while also not having the mana efficiency or tactical abilities of most of those classes. We can't quad kite, can't charm, can't fear kite, expensive ass DD's, so while I agree that shaman probably shouldn't melee at a certain point, I would argue that a lot of your levels are going to be spent meleeing out of necessity/efficiency .
Agreed; again, I failed to communicate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Meleeing (ie. tanking) and doing melee damage are two different things. We're great at the former (though maybe not better than a Ranger) ... but we're lousy at the latter.

Tanking is about taking hits, not giving them. In other words, it's about giving the mob something to do so it doesn't kill your pet or run around wasting your DoTs (and at high levels it's because you have no choice after being summoned).

None of that requires doing melee damage: between slows, roots, and DoTs (and Flash of Light [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) Shaman can easily tank a mob without ever landing a single melee hit. Melee damage is just "well I'm already standing next to this mob anyway, I might as well hit the auto attack button to throw a few extra DPS in".

Again, nothing wrong with that, it's just that the "might as well" damage will normally be less than either your pet damage or your DoT damage. If it amounts to say 20% (exact % varies by level/gear) of your damage then I just don't think it makes sense to spend a lot of time/energy trying to optimize that damage, because all that effort only optimizes 20% of your DPS output. If it takes you ten hours to acquire a haste belt/better weapon, that belt/weapon has to add damage equal to 50 hours of melee damage without it (10 hours / 20%), or else you would have been better off just XPing with your old gear.

P.S. That doesn't mean a Shaman should never upgrade their melee weapon. If they can get a new weapon that adds even a small amount of DPS at level 20 and then they never look for a new weapon again, even that small DPS increase will likely be justified over the course of 40 levels. Shaman can even make a few of those "justified" upgrades as they level because they can do so without spending a lot of time/energy on them. It's stuff like getting a haste belt, or getting a slightly more optimal weapon when you already have a PWC, that I think isn't worth the trouble.
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Last edited by loramin; 02-24-2018 at 12:20 PM..
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