Rules Clarification Request

[heartbrand]

It's that time of the year again where mass PvP is back and so are mass suspensions, some deserved, some a little confusing. One of the biggest issues we continue to face is the lack of clarity and written rules on a number of subjects, leaving us vets to rely on elf sim legal precedent. However, that doesn't appear to be a very safe way to keep your account getting past the login screen, so I would humbly suggest that we get an updated sticky on a few subjects:

1) dispelling raid mobs. In the past, this has been allowed regardless of circumstances, now it's being called raid disruption. Personally, I think if the character is out of range it should be raid disruption, but whatever the ruling is we should have one clear rule stickied so that everyone is on notice, rather than just suspending people on the spot.

2) training. In Velious zone PvP, mobs are going to get involved 95% of the time. Not everyone has faction in thurg/Kael/skyshrine/ToV, and many of these zones have mobs two inches from the zone in making aggro almost unavoidable, particularly skyshrine. Is having these types of mobs on you during PvP considered training, or is training going to be intentionally grabbing a bunch of mobs and dropping it on a force for the purpose of disruption? My preference would be the latter. No one wants to get suspended over an icewell sentry at the zone in sticking to them like a melee using the new HPT UI.

3) Force LNS. My understanding was always that if you didn't die in the PvP you were fair game, and that only essential classes to the CR from the zone were allowed. Last night it appeared confusing what was accurate. Let's clear this one up once and for all on the sticky as well.

4) ninja looting on OOR characters. Not a huge issue but one I've also seen conflicting rulings on. Personally I think since you can't resolve it via PvP it should be against the rules.



Thanks and let's all help make red99 a better place

[Gustoo]

Good post I agree whole heartedly we need these things set in stone so people can stay on the right side of the law.

[Retticus]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=148787

Causing Experience Loss.

Intentionally causing experience-loss to other players in the PvP environment is illegal in all cases and may result in disciplinary action when witnessed by a P99CSR. This includes things such as intentionally training NPCs. We do understand that there are cases where the experience-loss is unintentional, and no disciplinary action will be taken in those cases

.

Per the stickied rules it's clear that training is an intentional act to cause experience loss. Getting agro from a faction mob in a velious zone is a regular occurrence. Also if a "receiving" group of people are near a zoneline, they can zone, and unintentional experience loss is easily avoidable; in fact the person that received the agro MUST use the zoneline, so anyone standing near zonelines cannot use the "training" argument if they die to an NPC following another player exiting a zone.

Therefore I interpret agro from velious faction mobs and people near zonelines as exempt from the training argument.

In large scale PvP (7 or more players on both sides), LnS must be called by a force as a whole. Individuals may not invoke Loot and Scoot. LnS may be called by the force at any time, this option may never be forfeited. If a fight took place across multiple zones, the force is considered to have finished LnS'ing once all of their players have left the zones affected. All other LnS rules still apply.

The spirit of the rule is what matters. The spirit of force LNS is to allow a guild to concede the fight, get the dead, and leave the area without being griefed by another guild.

As for dispelling raid mobs. It is not written, but it is common knowledge that on a PvP server, players are equipped with the power to take some actions into their own hands. This means camp dispute and raid dispute. I am talking about IN RANGE players. If an IN RANGE character from an opposing guild wants to come try and take a mob from you, you can kill him. If a guild wants to contest a raid kill and the goal is to attack another guild when they are engaging the raid target they are allowed to dispell debuffs off the raid target with IN RANGE characters. The IN RANGE characters are susceptible to PvP. NO CSR involvement is required when ALL PARTIES are IN RANGE and the INTENTION is to GUILD VS GUILD PVP in contention of a RAID TARGET. The onus to secure the raid target is on the guild attempting to kill the raid target. They must be tactical with their raid location, winning large scale PvP and forcing the other guild to Force LnS from the zone for an hour, or defend while fighting the raid target.

Remember, blue does not have this power, they must rely on CSR involvement and rule lawyering. Red has Player VS Player for MOST camp resolution, within limits.

Thanks

[heartbrand]

It really makes no practical difference for PvP which rule interpretation is chosen. In the past, it was said that every person needs to die, and this was vigorously enforced against Red Dawn. I don't care what is chosen, as long as it is written and stickied so people can know what to do and not do and not eat a random DT/Suspension for an unwritten rule that literally changes based on who is GM that calendar year.

[Doctor Jeff]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It really makes no practical difference for PvP which rule interpretation is chosen. In the past, it was said that every person needs to die, and this was vigorously enforced against Red Dawn. I don't care what is chosen, as long as it is written and stickied so people can know what to do and not do and not eat a random DT/Suspension for an unwritten rule that literally changes based on who is GM that calendar year.

Here you can read the rules in this thread.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=148787


cylock yhou should click that link

[heartbrand]

Not sure why you're trying to shit the thread up, the rules are ambiguous.

"A player is 'Looting and Scooting' (LnSing) when he has died to an opponent and opts to call Loot and Scoot."

"If multiple players died in PvP and all choose to LnS, they may help each other do so (IE, res each other, drag corpses, port, etc) unless they have already opted out of LnS by fighting after death. After you have left the zone, you are considered to have finished Loot and Scooting, and may again be attacked. "

[Doctor Jeff]

In large scale PvP (7 or more players on both sides), LnS must be called by a force as a whole. Individuals may not invoke Loot and Scoot. LnS may be called by the force at any time, this option may never be forfeited. If a fight took place across multiple zones, the force is considered to have finished LnS'ing once all of their players have left the zones affected. All other LnS rules still apply.

You're intentionally quoting LNS rulings when we are discussing Force LNS.

[heartbrand]

Correct, and it is ambiguous if that means anyone in the Guild regardless if they died or not, or if it references those players who have died. I would venture a guess that the intention wasn't that players who weren't there and are not part of the CR could head on over to the LNS zone to port out with the rest of their guildies.

[Doctor Jeff]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

players who weren't there and are not part of the CR could head on over to the LNS zone to port out with the rest of their guildies.

Not "could"

Must.

They must port out with the rest of their force (not guild)

[Retticus]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...manipulate Cyclock, who has expressed extreme disinterest in learning the rules of the server, do not go unnoticed. (he literally said that he refuses to read the rule threads)

Is this true? Sad if so, but also explains some of the observations from the last week which are prompting this thread...