Rules regarding camps when someone has gotten the named spawn

[loramin]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are misreading and misinterpreting the guidebook in my opinion. The contested spawn section reads pretty clearly. If someone is contesting a spawn, GMs will refer to the prior section regarding disruption to determine if any action should be taken. There is nothing in the disruption section about guidelines for passing off camps.

Actually, you're misreading it. It very clearly says to check the disruption section to see if it's relevant, then (if it's not, as it would be in this case) it specifies how to handle camp disputes:

When a complaint is received indicating that a spawn or kill is contested, a disruption investigation should first be initiated according to the procedures of section 8.2.2 to determine if harassment or Zone/Area disruption is occurring. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary instruct the parties involved in the contested spawn situation to work out a compromise. Then leave the scene.

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Passing off a camp/spawn to a guild mate would not violate any part of the disruption guidelines and if you can’t prove disruption there is no action for the GM to take.

It's very simple. Whether someone wants to "hand the camp off" (something that was never a part of any rules or GM guidelines in classic) and someone else wanted it, you'd have a camp dispute. It would be resolved as specified, ie. the GM would first try and make everyone play nice, and if they couldn't they'd start a list with a random person being on top:

If another complaint is received involving the same spawn site, another disruption investigation should be initiated. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, if any of the parties involved were involved in the initial situation, establish a compromise for the parties to which the parties are required to abide. The compromise should be as described in section 8.2.3.1.

8.2.3.1
The compromise will require all parties to take turns killing the spawn(s). All parties involved in the contested spawn should be instructed to use /random 0 100 to choose a number. The CS Representative then uses /random 0 100. The individual with the closest number to the CS Representative’s number will be next in the rotation.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I see you still haven't responded to the fact that any guild monopolizing VP must also monopolize normal, non raid camps like https://wiki.project1999.com/Pained_Soul and https://wiki.project1999.com/Rotting_skeleton . There is no logical way a raid guild could monopolize VP without monopolizing these two camps. When you are trying to be server first at killing the dragons in VP, you aren't going to leave Pained Soul or Rotting Skeleton camps unmanned for hours or days at a time. Otherwise you would never be able to get a kill force into VP in any reasonable amount of time. Another guild would beat you to it. And if you have two guild fighting for Pained Soul and Rotting Skeleton, that is the same dynamic as the Idol camp on P99 lol.

All of your points about the GM rulebook are irrelevant, as we do not have enough GMs to enforce them. All of the solutions you have posted from the GM rulebook end up with the GM making the final decision, which we don't usually have the luxury of due to our unpaid volunteer staff doing this on their free time (which is amazing that they do this for us).

That is why the P99 PnP allows the camp owner to act as the arbiter in a dispute. If you agree with your own statement that most people follow the rules, that means they will follow the rule that elevates the camp owner to the arbiter of the dispute and respect their decision. Only when they disobey the rules or cannot come to an agreement will GMs get involved.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see you still haven't responded to the fact that any guild monopolizing VP must also monopolize normal, non raid camps like https://wiki.project1999.com/Pained_Soul and https://wiki.project1999.com/Rotting_skeleton . There is no logical way a raid guild could monopolize VP without monopolizing these two camps. When you are trying to be server first at killing the dragons in VP, you aren't going to leave Pained Soul or Rotting Skeleton camps unmanned for hours or days at a time. Otherwise you would never be able to get a kill force into VP in any reasonable amount of time. Another guild would beat you to it. And if you have two guild fighting for Pained Soul and Rotting Skeleton, that is the same dynamic as the Idol camp on P99 lol.

All of your points about the GM rulebook are irrelevant, as we do not have enough GMs to enforce them. All of the solutions you have posted from the GM rulebook end up with the GM making the final decision, which we don't usually have the luxury of due to our unpaid volunteer staff doing this on their free time (which is amazing that they do this for us).

That is why the P99 PnP allows the camp owner to act as the arbiter in a dispute. If you agree with your own statement that most people follow the rules, that means they will follow the rule that elevates the camp owner to the arbiter of the dispute and respect their decision. Only when they disobey the rules or cannot come to an agreement will GMs get involved.

King in warrens

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see you still haven't responded to the fact that any guild monopolizing VP must also monopolize normal, non raid camps like https://wiki.project1999.com/Pained_Soul and https://wiki.project1999.com/Rotting_skeleton . There is no logical way a raid guild could monopolize VP without monopolizing these two camps.

I don't understand how you could say that: there is no VP access without Trakanon kills. Period. End of story.

You could farm a million Pained Souls and you still wouldn't get a single guild member into VP. Therefore there is no need to monopolize any other camp ... and again, in classic that's how "guild monopolizations of top end zones" worked. They "monopolized" the raid content that was necessary (but they didn't do it the P99 way, by winning some race: they just had better raiders and there was far less competition back then.)

And as for the guidebook thing, you're being obtuse. As I keep saying, of course our GMs can't do what live GMs can do. But they can try to be as close as possible, and understanding what live GMs did can help with that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't understand how you could say that: there is no VP access without Trakanon kills. Period. End of story.

You could farm a million Pained Souls and you still wouldn't get a single guild member into VP. Therefore there is no need to monopolize any other camp ... and again, in classic that's how "guild monopolizations of top end zones" worked. They "monopolized" the raid content that was necessary (but they didn't do it the P99 way, by winning some race: they just had better raiders and there was far less competition back then.)

And as for the guidebook thing, you're being obtuse. As I keep saying, of course our GMs can't do what live GMs can do. But they can try to be as close as possible, and understanding what live GMs did can help with that.

Uh, there is no VP access without https://wiki.project1999.com/Pained_Soul and https://wiki.project1999.com/Rotting_skeleton. Period. End of story. I am not sure why you think that helps your case to say it another way lol. Do you not know that these mobs are a required part of the keying process? You NEED to camp them when getting your guild members into VP, which means you... monopolize the camps lol. Thanks for proving my point.

We aren't talking about improving GMs, we are talking about the PnP rules which are there to prevent GM intervention. Please STOP changing the subject whenever you can't disprove a point. How are you even reading these posts? You are basically talking nonsense. Not trying to be mean, but this discussion has NEVER been about improving how GMs interact with players on P99 lol. The camp owner dictating who gets the camp rule has nothing to do with GMs unless the people involved disagree with the camp owner.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uh, there is no VP key without Pained Soul kills. Period. End of story. I am not sure why you think that helps your case to say it another way lol. Do you not know that Pained Soul is a required part of the keying process? You NEED to camp Pained Soul, which means you... monopolize the camp lol. Thanks for proving my point.

We aren't talking about improving GMs, we are talking about the PnP rules which are there to prevent GM intervention. Please STOP changing the subject whenever you can't disprove a point.

King in warrens

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

King in warrens

I don't get it.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uh, there is no VP access without https://wiki.project1999.com/Pained_Soul and https://wiki.project1999.com/Rotting_skeleton. Period. End of story. I am not sure why you think that helps your case to say it another way lol. Do you not know that these mobs are a required part of the keying process? You NEED to camp them when getting your guild members into VP, which means you... monopolize the camps lol. Thanks for proving my point.

There's no "pint", there's no "case", there's just the simple fact of how live was ... and you're clearly trying to be willfully ignorant of how live guilds worked. I give up trying to explain it to you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no "pint", there's no "case", there's just the simple fact of how live was ... and you're clearly trying to be willfully ignorant of how live guilds worked. I give up trying to explain it to you.

The only willfully ignorant person here is you. Your own example shows camp monopolization outside of raid zones for raiding purposes. You are just bending backwards to try and back out of that blunder.

If that is "how live was", then camp monopolization for raiding purposes was classic. As you say, look to the top left[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only willfully ignorant person here is you. Your own example shows camp monopolization outside of raid zones for raiding purposes. You are just bending backwards to try and back out of that blunder.

If that is "how live was", then camp monopolization for raiding purposes was classic. As you say, look to the top left[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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