100k to make a monk twink - solo only

[radbeard]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With an IFS you have just over a second (if not hasted at all) to time swapping in a 28 delay offhand and are more likely to miss the MH timer and delay a 2h hit even a fraction of a second. If you are cycling on/off attack whether to flop aggro or try and game the MH timer you are just as likely to forget to turn attack back on or bork a flop. The more complicated something gets often the less reliable it is to repeat consistently, especially under pressure or if tired.

I don’t know anyone else who swaps in an offhand. I (and many others) just hover the 2h for a punch or two while keeping attack on. It’s a solid and fairly easy increase in damage you can get a rhythm on. I’d keep a SoS for the proc and then put it away for another hr or so.

IFS is 40 delay. Thats 4 seconds. At 100% max haste its 2 seconds. Its still wildly difficult to do this swapping thing and I don't think it makes any sense to even attempt it, but its not as bad as 1 second!

Its probably also worth noting that if you never misfire and do a punch primary attack, a merely delayed primary attack isn't necessarily a straight dps loss if your offhand is doing a good chunk of damage and the delay is minimal then it could still be a dps increase. it just isn't feasible to keep this up without error for very long. Maybe if Wurmslayer could be offhanded still it would be worth considering!

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by radbeard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IFS is 40 delay. Thats 4 seconds. At 100% max haste its 2 seconds. Its still wildly difficult to do this swapping thing and I don't think it makes any sense to even attempt it, but its not as bad as 1 second!

Its probably also worth noting that if you never misfire and do a punch primary attack, a merely delayed primary attack isn't necessarily a straight dps loss if your offhand is doing a good chunk of damage and the delay is minimal then it could still be a dps increase. it just isn't feasible to keep this up without error for very long. Maybe if Wurmslayer could be offhanded still it would be worth considering!

I was just noting the difference between the MH (4 seconds, 2 fully hasted at 60) and the 28 delay offhand (SoS) is a .5-1 second gap depending on haste. If you can do the swap you don't get an immediate free hit with the SoS. The fist works great for this because fully hasted it's 8 delay so pretty easy to get a couple cycles in w/o delaying the 2h even a fraction of a second.

As a side-note, the primary fist won't swing until the MH timer resets. I've opened with a Earthshaker (70 delay unhasted) and swapped in a 19 delay primary. I got two ranger punches before I got one more slash off the 1hs MH.

I respect the tryhardism here. The 2h-punch trick can really bump a monk up in DPS. Taking it to 3D chess seems more likely to be a detriment than plus your game. If you have reflexes this quick you probably should go win money at like CS:Go or something [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Kirdan]

People seem confused about what swapping does when you do it right. You swap your 2h weapon out at the right time and you get an immediate *offhand* bare fist swing, then you replace your 2h in time to swing again. If you are getting more than a couple punches in then you are doing it wrong and you are missing on a 2h swing. There isn't a way to get extra weapon swings in by swapping something into your offhand because the offhand swings happen immediately when you remove your 2h.

[radbeard]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People seem confused about what swapping does when you do it right. You swap your 2h weapon out at the right time and you get an immediate *offhand* bare fist swing, then you replace your 2h in time to swing again. If you are getting more than a couple punches in then you are doing it wrong and you are missing on a 2h swing. There isn't a way to get extra weapon swings in by swapping something into your offhand because the offhand swings happen immediately when you remove your 2h.

you would get the offhand weapon swap by toggling auto-attack off before unequipping the weapon. this has been a long discussion about how its technically feasible but not practically feasible.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People seem confused about what swapping does when you do it right. You swap your 2h weapon out at the right time and you get an immediate *offhand* bare fist swing, then you replace your 2h in time to swing again. If you are getting more than a couple punches in then you are doing it wrong and you are missing on a 2h swing. There isn't a way to get extra weapon swings in by swapping something into your offhand because the offhand swings happen immediately when you remove your 2h.

Thank you for saying succinctly what I could not [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People seem confused about what swapping does when you do it right. You swap your 2h weapon out at the right time and you get an immediate *offhand* bare fist swing, then you replace your 2h in time to swing again. If you are getting more than a couple punches in then you are doing it wrong and you are missing on a 2h swing. There isn't a way to get extra weapon swings in by swapping something into your offhand because the offhand swings happen immediately when you remove your 2h.

unless you have an epic, and then fists are 9 delay hasted and you get mainhand + secondary swings in between 17 delay t staff swings

[Kirdan]

Epic is not required to weapon swap for offhand swings, and it actually reduces your offhand swing damage because your non-epic bare fists are higher damage and the delay is not a factor. If you are getting mainhand swings with your bare fists then you are doing it wrong and missing 2h swings.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by radbeard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At 100% max haste its 2 seconds.

A solo melee player will likely not have max haste though. For someone who is just leveling up with typical gear, they will only have 21% - 36%.

But yes, when having high haste amounts, it's more ideal to have a higher delay Two-hander to be able to absolutely maximize DPS.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was just noting the difference between the MH (4 seconds, 2 fully hasted at 60) and the 28 delay offhand (SoS) is a .5-1 second gap depending on haste.

.6 to 1.2 depending on haste, yes. The exact time at which you click the offhand needs to be kept within that timeframe during the cycle or else you won't get the extra swing, because it will still be on cooldown from the last time you swung it. To create maximum DPS it's thus necessary to immediately turn off autoattack after the Two-hand swing and swap to the offhand without waiting too long (unless you were to always be slower with your timing and swing the offhand later in the cycle, but that's a ridiculous risk to take, because you would be likely to mess up the next primary attack).

What actually may be easier to not mess up the timing, is to not use autoattack at all. Instead, spam the hotkey for manual attack on Two-hander after reequipping it, that way you'll "feel" the swing happen and can swap by feel. Not using autoattack will create small input delays on the effective attack delay of your Two-hand weapon, but if that's what's needed for a particular individual to get the dual attack every round, then that is going to result in better DPS overall.

The most user-friendly method will be to not swap every attack round, instead every other Two-hand round. That way there will be less work and less worry about timing, but still a decent DPS increase.

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There isn't a way to get extra weapon swings in by swapping something into your offhand

As explained already, yes there is.

It's very important for Warriors and Rangers. I vividly recall my favorite Warriors in 1999 swapping every round with their Executioners Axes and Slayers Axes and Fleshrippers, and the difference was huge. Grouping with less skilled Warriors felt bad, you could immediately feel how they were contributing less.

As lower delay weapons and high haste amounts entered into the game, the technique seemingly was forgotten about. It's still the best thing to do though.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's very important for Warriors and Rangers.

No its not, as velious was beat in kunark gear without weapon swapping. Its levels of autism higher than canni dancing. Hope this helps.

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A solo melee player will likely not have max haste though. For someone who is just leveling up with typical gear, they will only have 21% - 36%.

But yes, when having high haste amounts, it's more ideal to have a higher delay Two-hander to be able to absolutely maximize DPS.



.6 to 1.2 depending on haste, yes. The exact time at which you click the offhand needs to be kept within that timeframe during the cycle or else you won't get the extra swing, because it will still be on cooldown from the last time you swung it. To create maximum DPS it's thus necessary to immediately turn off autoattack after the Two-hand swing and swap to the offhand without waiting too long (unless you were to always be slower with your timing and swing the offhand later in the cycle, but that's a ridiculous risk to take, because you would be likely to mess up the next primary attack).

What actually may be easier to not mess up the timing, is to not use autoattack at all. Instead, spam the hotkey for manual attack on Two-hander after reequipping it, that way you'll "feel" the swing happen and can swap by feel. Not using autoattack will create small input delays on the effective attack delay of your Two-hand weapon, but if that's what's needed for a particular individual to get the dual attack every round, then that is going to result in better DPS overall.

The most user-friendly method will be to not swap every attack round, instead every other Two-hand round. That way there will be less work and less worry about timing, but still a decent DPS increase.



As explained already, yes there is.

It's very important for Warriors and Rangers. I vividly recall my favorite Warriors in 1999 swapping every round with their Executioners Axes and Slayers Axes and Fleshrippers, and the difference was huge. Grouping with less skilled Warriors felt bad, you could immediately feel how they were contributing less.

As lower delay weapons and high haste amounts entered into the game, the technique seemingly was forgotten about. It's still the best thing to do though.

Are you on blue or green? If on blue could you show me what you are talking about? I have diff weps to try and can run gam parse. I wanna see how to do it please /nod