Sebilis Crypt Camp

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought that was what was proposed? I think I need an actual lawyer to understand these rules.

Ask two lawyers to read the same rule and you'll get two different outcomes.

[Millburn]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ask two lawyers to read the same rule and you'll get two different outcomes.

Which is why having a rule with all these addendum's and exceptions is destined to fail, it has to be simple and understandable.

Crypt is a 4 slot camp, any individual or group can claim any part(s) of the 4 slot camp that they demonstrate as having the ability to clear and maintain and is not presently claimed by another individual or group.

Everything falling outside this should be decided on play nice rules.

[Spitty]

I'm stating that if one person is camping Duke and Hiero, that person can't claim the entire crypt but still retains the right to at least claim one mob, and can competitively work towards maintaining both spawns. That's essentially what this entire discussion is stemming from.

It's unreasonable to allow a person to claim the entire place whilst sitting in the Duke room, and it's unreasonable to allow a group to roll in and force that same person out of every spawn in the area.

[Nirgon]

People won't follow the rules you put in place and a GM will need to handle things from time to time.

Hence why I posted what I posted :P.

A claimed spawn should be pretty obvious as should someone who is taking too long to pull it after it pops.

[Spitty]

I'm not a fan of complications, but let's be honest here - the only reason this is an issue is because people farm cloaks and bracers solo/duo, and that clashes with groups wanting to come down and clear everything.

My suggestion accounts for the lonely people that spend their time sitting in one room and makes it so the rest of the mobs don't go to waste if a group shows up.

[Iliilliill]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PlayerA is sitting camping the heiro/duke, groupB comes in and wants to take duke, and so they claim that room by the camp rules. groupB also wants to go camp the other two rooms because its a full group and they don't want to sit in that one room. playerA takes that opportunity to call camp rules and demand that they stay in that one rooms spawn, because they can't hold multiple camps. Because the SECOND that group goes to clear those other two rooms, PlayerA who was there before is going to go "well i want to contest the rare spawn, you can't hold multiple camps, so pick one and stick with it".

Keep in mind that the common sense way to deal with this is to say "stop being dumb and let them clear the other three rooms", but there are so many rule lawyers on this server, and everyone wants to call foul when a guide/gm comes in and doesn't follow the rules laid out in the forums. The last thing our Guides need is more headaches.

Seems to me that GroupB rule lawyered first.
If PlayerA is able to hold Hiero and the Duke on their own within a reasonable time of the mobs spawning, wouldn't common sense be that he's free to claim the two? He's not being greedy or trying to get more than he's reasonably able to control.
(This assumes people are being reasonable and I'm sure you're more aware than others that most people are unreasonable when it comes to their pixels, and nobody is reasonable 100% of the time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] )

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For example, if I'm sitting at the Mistmoore pond killing just one of the little two spawns in the corner, and a full group comes in and wants to kill those mobs, can I sit there and continue to kill those two mobs while they clear everything else? Sure, why not? You were there first and could continue without the group disturbing you (ideally)
What happens if in the process of killing those two mobs I aggro other nearby mobs from the camp the other group is clearing around me? Am I allowed to kill those mobs to defend myself, or do I need to leave them for the group and let them kill me because I'm standing in the middle of a camp killing two mobs while the group kills the rest? If the group wasn't there and you aggroed them, you would die (or have to engage) and it would be your fault, why would the groups presence change what you engage? if it happened, it would have to be sorted out by the players (either die or kill mobs) and hopefully not have it repeated. imo this would be the oddball occurrence vs normal camping, so imo the process shouldn't be catered to the oddity

If it DOESNT apply to all 'camps' how do we define which camps it DOES apply to? probably why SOE never acknowledged camps. but, this is of course a diff situation

lowbie analogy: i logged my shaman in to South Karana the other night to kill some trees. Trees are two static six minute solo pulls, when i logged in I found someone only able to kill one. by the time they could recover from the first, it had repopped and they couldn't move on to the second. Did I kick them out because I can handle two at a time? No, I asked them if I could take the other one (they agreed) and in my down time I buffed them so they could kill some roaming trash as well. And good guy that I am I didn't even ninja the repop while they were gone.

I was even in the reverse situation killing some guards: I could only kill two in an area and when a higher level player came to the camp, they let me keep my two and only pulled the guards I was unable to engage.

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed, and you shouldn't have to kill all the extra spawns to hold claim to the camp as long as you're killing the main attraction (in your example, the king and the tactician, or in the crypt example, the four named spawns) and keeping them clear.

Why are all 4 crypt spawns the main attraction? if all PlayerA wants is two named in the area that's his main attraction, and if uncontested when he gets there IMO he should be free to kill the two.

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I changed the wording in the original post. PlayerA isn't an asshole because he wants to solo camp a mob - that's all good. In my example I changed his name to AssholeA because he was then lawyering the camp rules to limit a group of 6 to one room, and thus likely make them leave

Is the fun/pixels of 1 person less important than that of a group?

I found this last post from the Camps Defined thread relevant:

Originally Posted by Uthgaard

Camping a mob is a privelege, not a right. If someone wants the privelege of having sole claim to a mob, they have to make the sacrifice of whatever else they could be doing with themselves. Claim to a camp is a considerable advantage, it comes with a cost. Choose wisely.

If GroupB wanted to lawyer a mob away from someone they are sacrificing their time and effort to do so. Leaving to kill another mob would be a forfeit of that effort to control the first mob, and if they expected to return to the first uncontested they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.


I appreciate everything the support staff does here, I've never even had a situation that needs mediation leaving one party pissed off. Always dealt with fairly and with the betterment of the server in mind. Wish more players just followed the "don't be a douchebag" style of play, but TBH most of the conflict I see comes from ForumQuesting.

[Nips]

I think the gms on this server are really really good, but that being said, they are wayyyy too unnecessarily active. Should just forgo a lot of the rules and let the players deal with it, that's part of what makes EQ fun after all. These rules are just too much, and its hard to even keep up with whats what. Its also just so non classic that anytime I've been involved in some kind of "ruling" it really ruins my eq experience.

[Vandy]

Originally Posted by Iliilliill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems to me that GroupB rule lawyered first.
If PlayerA is able to hold Hiero and the Duke on their own within a reasonable time of the mobs spawning, wouldn't common sense be that he's free to claim the two? He's not being greedy or trying to get more than he's reasonably able to control.
(This assumes people are being reasonable and I'm sure you're more aware than others that most people are unreasonable when it comes to their pixels, and nobody is reasonable 100% of the time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] )

I agree here that there seems to be some sort of double standard, that GroupB is fine and in the right to pull the "sit on NPC spawn point or it's not your camp" card to get their way but PlayerA is in the wrong to return the favor.

GroupB fully had the choice of killing the remaining 2 named in the area and crawling to the Emp/Blood spawn for a total of 4 named.

[Derubael]

Thank you all for the input! Locking thread.