Amendment to Kael Footrace rules ( request )

[Pint]

I can talk until I am blue in the face and you will continue to dismiss my input at every turn bc you insist on working with the assumption that my motives are 100% self serving and in no way trying to account for creating a level playing field for every party involved full stop. Until you are prepared to sit down and work with your peers (those of us who do not share your play style) to fully think through the implications of your positions, we will continue to push all of these scenarios to their obvious end point until you are ready to acknowledge that we are trying to create an environment that does not need to be continually second guessed.

If you think that this singular petty over sight is unique then you are not prepared for the environment you are trying to step in to. Wait until the first few times my guild is telling you to concede a mob that you violated a very vague kiting or stalling rule on and you're having to explain to 70 people that the last 10 hours of time investment was for nothing bc making the wrong decision means a 10 day vacation or a 2 week lockout despite the fact that you do not know if you even violated a rule in the first place. How many instances need to play out before you end up right back here asking questions that sirken isn't going to answer satisfactorily for you.

We are not your enemy, we are your competition. Until you are able to separate these two concepts and work with us, you are going to find this raiding environment very inhospitable just like Asgard did we when entered into it.

[Katpal]

I feel like I was played, so thank you for taking another chunk out of what was left of my ability to work with those who insist on stacking the deck in their favor.

This footrace rule was introduced prior to the summit and lead to discussions about it's viability as a way to end the zone disruptions that are occurring in most raid zones on the server. While I was not in favor of the rule as that is not my preferred method of engaging a mob, I agreed that more time was needed to fully assess this as a possible solution.

The footrace rule was promoted as a way to "level the playing field" because "anyone could run". Instead, the guild that introduced the rule is the very guild that used it to placehold FTE for themsleves. That was absolutely not in the spirit of the rule nor how the rule was presented and defended by it's sponsors.

If you want to footrace for FTE in Kael to guarantee your 1 attempt at Statue/King Tormax, then said rule must stipulate that once your raid force leaves the zone, you lose your claim to FTE.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can talk until I am blue in the face and you will continue to dismiss my input at every turn bc you insist on working with the assumption that my motives are 100% self serving and in no way trying to account for creating a level playing field for every party involved full stop. Until you are prepared to sit down and work with your peers (those of us who do not share your play style) to fully think through the implications of your positions, we will continue to push all of these scenarios to their obvious end point until you are ready to acknowledge that we are trying to create an environment that does not need to be continually second guessed.

If you think that this singular petty over sight is unique then you are not prepared for the environment you are trying to step in to. Wait until the first few times my guild is telling you to concede a mob that you violated a very vague kiting or stalling rule on and you're having to explain to 70 people that the last 10 hours of time investment was for nothing bc making the wrong decision means a 10 day vacation or a 2 week lockout despite the fact that you do not know if you even violated a rule in the first place. How many instances need to play out before you end up right back here asking questions that sirken isn't going to answer satisfactorily for you.

We are not your enemy, we are your competition. Until you are able to separate these two concepts and work with us, you are going to find this raiding environment very inhospitable just like Asgard did we when entered into it.

I don't think anyone is an enemy here other than the mobs themselves.

Every opinion matters. I'm saying that time for engagement is not viable. I'm suggesting a different means by which to rule to create an environment that is both non-training and non-stalling.

I'm at the table of change and happy to work through things from a bipartisan viewpoint. But I won't ignore one culture and only work from the other.

[Pint]

Aftermath is in full support of fte guaranteeing you an attempt on a mob free of time limit up until you fte a different mob. This will result in us fte'ing statue and leaving it up until prime time so that we have the #'s for AoW. Assuming that tov works in a similar fashion we will fte dragon x and leave it until we determine who gets fte on dragon y. We will also use this to shift windows in our favor. If these things are acceptable to the rest of you then we can get behind your solution. I believe that our reasoning for leaving mobs up will coincide with your own, especially if you also want to start attempting AoW.

Pretending like aftermath proposed a rule and designed it with the intent of exploiting it is asinine. We were the first to point out the flaw and the first to suggest it be resolved, both things happened before the races ever started.

We do not care what play style you fall under. If you want to compete with us then we will hold you to the same standard that we are held to. We took Asgard from class R to class C and we went from low end velious to high end velious. Asgard has had to run this gauntlet and learn the realities of this raid environment first hand, if you also want to progress forward then you too will have to adapt. I didn't wake up one day with a penchant for rule lawyering and jumping through loop holes, I was thrown into a crash course by IB/rampage/awakened.. Welcome to the party.

[Culkasi]

So, Pint, just to understand, Aftermath policy is "no matter what, we will always do what it takes to make sure no one else gets raid mobs, and bend the rules as much as possible to achieve that"?

Staff: All you have to say is that you prefer if only Aftermath and Awakened would raid, at least that way we have a sense of direction for how you want the raid scene to be.

[Detoxx]

We understand you dont like what happened last night. We are 100% on board to make something different about it, and I tried my hardest at the meeting to make rules for these exact situations. There is currently 5 mobs sitting up, 4 of them in the end zones of expansions, that haven't even been attempted by anyone.

Klandicar is left up by both us and Awakened every week. Im not sure why you aren't attempting any of these mobs? I know you have the keys for VP, you've been farming Trak for months. Theres literally no one in NToV atm. These mobs take 30 people to kill, not a huge force.

There is a simple fix to what happened last night: You get FTE, you get 1 attempt or 1 hour to kill it. If you leave the zone, you forfeit it. Funny, cause had we actually talked about this at the meeting, instead of resource distribution, this could have all been avoided. Instead, we decided to talk about how its not fair that upper guilds would benefit from this rather than realizing how much the other guilds with benefit from it ten fold. Also we decided to talk about how it wouldn't be fair since we have more experience running up.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Culkasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, Pint, just to understand, Aftermath policy is "no matter what, we will always do what it takes to make sure no one else gets raid mobs, and bend the rules as much as possible to achieve that"?

Go ahead and highlight where I made that statement. Alternatively, work with me to establish common ground and move forward.