Kael + ToV Rules

[phiren]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you pull a mob into camp and it leaves your camp still breathing then you failed, pretty simple hehe. aborting a kill is equivalent with wiping.

getting FTE gives you an attempt at the mob and 60 minutes to prepare that attempt, it doesnt give you an hour of unlimited attempts, that would be silly.

I'm not TRYING to be difficult here .. but I assure you this will happen:
Guild A gets FTE on mob and has an hour. 10-15 minutes in as they are positioning for it, they get a semi bad pull, or someone trains them. This pull/train doesn't even include the mob they are going after and have their 60 minute FTE on. Dozens will die, the rest will camp out to clear aggro.

Did Guild A just wipe?

~Phiren
Azure Guard

[Pint]

Originally Posted by phiren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not TRYING to be difficult here .. but I assure you this will happen:
Guild A gets FTE on mob and has an hour. 10-15 minutes in as they are positioning for it, they get a semi bad pull, or someone trains them. This pull/train doesn't even include the mob they are going after and have their 60 minute FTE on. Dozens will die, the rest will camp out to clear aggro.

Did Guild A just wipe?

~Phiren
Azure Guard

Did the dragon come in with the pull and kill people? Botching your pull is a form of wiping. If you just wipe to trash mobs then youre fine but if you attempt to pull a dragon and train yourself in the process whether or not youre at west exit or inside ntov, you've wiped yourself and forfeited your attempt imo.

[arsenalpow]

Which is why Sirken tacking on "one attempt" is stupid, because now we get to define what constitutes a wipe. Just make it a flat 60 minutes, easy peasy.

[Katpal]

I would like to see a guild be able to take 60 minutes to kill a dragon if they need it, even if they wipe a time or two.

The rules don't specifically state 1 attempt, it says engage and kill. I won't rules lawyer though, I know the previous thread where the racing rule was first introduced said 1 attempt, so I assume that to be the case here as well.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a review though - for those learning new encounters to be given full use of their 60 minutes should they win a race.

And if you think about the openness of the rule, I don't see why we couldn't all agree to allow that anyway.

[phiren]

Azure Guard is behind the "Your mob for 60 minutes, do whatever you want". It's very easy to police this ourselves, as opposed to telling another guild "We checked with our legal team, and WE decided that your guild wiped, so the mob is now FFA, good try though".

~Phiren

[Pint]

You guys were given a full hour to prepare and execute your attempts by the staff and you're already asking for more despite the fact that none of you have even given the new concessions a real chance... You should at least feel obligated to attempt the new system before you start asking for more. Defining a wipe is very straight forward, if a dragon finds it way intl your camp alive and then leaves your camp alive then you have failed. Where is the wiggle room to lawyer? If you don't think you can execute a pull then go clear to your dragon just like you advocated for initially. Its what you wanted and the staff made it possible for you.

[phiren]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys were given a full hour to prepare and execute your attempts by the staff and you're already asking for more

No one is asking for more here actually. Quite a few of us agree that the *original rule* made was very simple:

~~~~~~~~~~
All Temple of Veeshan raid targets as well as King Tormax / Statue, are now foot race FTEs from the zone lines. If your guild gets FTE on a target, then your guild will be given a 60minute grace period to engage and kill the mob, allowing them a fair and legitimate chance at that target. A guild may not FTE any other raid target until their FTE’d target is either Dead, or the 60 minutes is up.
~~~~~~~~

We are technically asking for less here. We don't like the amendments that were added after the fact. They took an extremely simple and basic concept and opened up the door for rule lawyering and confusion.

But until Sirken clarifies some of the amendments for us, it is what it is.

ToV is still a cluster. When Guild C accidentally trains Aftermath as you are fighting Mob X, we are saying that Aftermath should still be entitled to Mob X. However, with your own definition of the rule, Aftermath wiped and the mob is now FFA. You will lose mob X to guilds A, B, or D. It doesn't matter that you got trained by Guild C, you can petition the other guild later. It won't help you with Mob X loot, which will go legally to A B or D. You just now lost Mob X because you wiped, plain and simple. Mob X is now FFA.

Now -- if you had 60 minutes for Mob X -- you wouldn't even need to petition anyone. You could even laugh about getting trained instead of raging. Mob X is still yours. You just rezz up and do it again.


~Phiren
Azure Guard

[Kileras]

i dont see this being an issue in Kael, but judging by how things go in ToV it is going to be a bit of a mess. The first time one of us non super experienced guilds snipe an FTE, there is going to be quite the uproar over us getting the mob cleared and out of camps ASAP so others can be ready to kill their mob and move to the next one. I highly doubt anyone is going to stand for more than one real attempt at bringing a mob into camp.

[bktroost]

I think the nightmare scenario that Phiren is expressing here is when CSG goes for a mob and Anon trains near us pulling another mob and we wipe to their backwash. Is that our wipe and now the mob is FFA? Maybe not because the dragon wasn't in our camp. So then what happens when we pull a dragon into our camp and the backwash from at train comes back and hits us while we are fighting a dragon. We wipe to that dragon but by no fault of our guild.

Those are some questions that do need agreed on. Certainly if it was Anon that trained us they can concede, but Divinity can now FTE and kill our dragon because we "wiped". There is wiggle room for abuse here.

[Pint]

If another guild trains you then it is obviously on them to concede their mob and it only affects you in that your timer is still ticking. We told you that you were in over your heads wanting to clear into tov, you take on the risks involved in clearing in there when you decide to do it. Everyone in the sub forum knows what a wipe is and when it is and isn't their own fault, pretending like you don't just to squeeze out a more favorable position for yourself is laughable. Tov is a difficult zone to navigate and succeed in, youre going to fail at first and learn from those failures, just keep trying until you get better like the rest of us did.