AC Seeming to have little to no impact

[deadlycupcakez]

Even with the same amount of hits you'll take 6500 more damage. I'm just pointing out from a clerics viewpoint in a longer term group setting, the mitigation of that extra 6,500 damage seems very valuable to my mana pool/appears to be working properly.

[Ciroco]

Do DB and DI work the same way here as they do on Live? If so, parsing against one type of mob isn't enough to prove a lack of effectiveness.

[Bodybagger]

Originally Posted by Schortt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmm. Mitigation seems to be scaling pretty well within my means of testing it.

All data is a 60 Iks Monk getting hit by the same level 59 Crystal Destroyer in Velks (max hit 350) for roughly 10 minutes.

All AC values were with identical buffs (aego) and achieved by removing gear down to 877. To get below that I had to load up on plat to get some AC penalty going on.

1171 AC
--- Total damage: 32455 --- Avg hit: 186 --- Swings: 399 --- Defended: 100 (25.1%) --- Hit: 174 (43.6%) --- Missed: 125 (31.3%) --- Accuracy: 58.2% --- Dodged: 18 (5.7%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 67 (16.8%) --- Riposted: 15 (4.5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

1070 AC
--- Total damage: 44798 --- Avg hit: 199 --- Swings: 481 --- Defended: 112 (23.3%) --- Hit: 225 (46.8%) --- Missed: 144 (29.9%) --- Accuracy: 61% --- Dodged: 17 (4.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 75 (15.6%) --- Riposted: 20 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

969 AC
--- Total damage: 40925 --- Avg hit: 210 --- Swings: 447 --- Defended: 115 (25.7%) --- Hit: 194 (43.4%) --- Missed: 138 (30.9%) --- Accuracy: 58.4% --- Dodged: 28 (7.8%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 68 (15.2%) --- Riposted: 19 (5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

877 AC (naked + aego)
--- Total damage: 45533 --- Avg hit: 229 --- Swings: 498 --- Defended: 142 (28.5%) --- Hit: 198 (39.8%) --- Missed: 158 (31.7%) --- Accuracy: 55.6% --- Dodged: 28 (7.3%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 92 (18.5%) --- Riposted: 22 (5.4%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

770 AC (naked + aego + enough weight to drop my AC that far)
--- Total damage: 45136 --- Avg hit: 246 --- Swings: 436 --- Defended: 103 (23.6%) --- Hit: 183 (42%) --- Missed: 150 (34.4%) --- Accuracy: 55% --- Dodged: 19 (5.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 66 (15.1%) --- Riposted: 18 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

I will try out MotG or some other much higher level mob when I have the time.

To clarify, when you say you used plat weight to drop your AC further, does that mean your dropped you AGI to drop AC and did you drop below agi cap at 80 or whatever it is? I was surprised not to see even more dmg here

As far as this data shows you're taking roughly 10% less dmg per hit per 100ac increase below 1k AC and about 6% less per 100 AC beyond there? 400+ AC getting you 25% less incoming dmg based solely on average damage per hit (what AC directly affects, right?)

And per Youlaths Data, shows you took roughly 10% less dmg ~850AC vs ~1150AC which isn't in line with the monk parse shown...

Does anyone have parsing showing # of hits for Max dmg as one of the figures? RNG will play a factor always but I feel # of hits for max dmg being diminished, # of min dmg hits increased, as well as overall impact of of RNG average hits would be what AC affects, but I know nothing about any of it, purely speculation as to how I'd imagine it working for dice roll dps/mitigation system

[koros]

One important thing to keep in mind is that mobs have a 1-20 interval they can hit on + their damage bonus. If you have a mob that has a min hit of 201 and a max hit of 220 (200 damage bonus), it's not going to seem like ac is doing as much.

To really calculate the effects of AC we need to determine how it changes the average interval hit. Maybe going from 600 ac to 1100 ac changes the average hit on a mobs interval from 17 to 6. This can be big, especially for mobs with low damage bonuses and high DIs.

Correct method to parse AC:

Determine mobs minimum hit and damage interval. Subtract damage interval from min hit to determine damage bonus. Now, figure out the average and median interval hits, not just the average overall hit.

Here's an example. A mob has a damage bonus of 120, and an interval of 9. This leaves us with a a minimum hit of 129 (120 + 1*9), and a max hit of 300 (120 + 20*9). The mob can therefore hit anywhere in that range in intervals of 9: 129, 138, 147, 156, etc.

If parsing at 600 ac, you got an average hit of 255 you know that the mobs average interval hit is 17.2 (255-100 = 155/9 ~= 17.2).

If you then parse at 1100 ac and get an average hit of 200 you know the mobs average interval is (200-100 = 100/9 ~= 11.1).

That's a huge change in theoretically removable damage (damage bonus damage can't be removed)

Sorry to be redundant on that, but it's important to make that clear if you want AC parses to be meaningful. What mob you parse with matters. Ultimately I bet we're going to see a pretty linear change in average interval hit, on a per mob basis, as AC varies.

If anyone wants to provide those min/max/interval numbers on existing parses I'd be happy to plug the data in.

[Nirgon]

I just wanna stroke your beard

[koros]

bump?

[Schortt]

I'm still working on collecting data. Will hopefully have enough to throw up another post after the weekend. I've got comparisons on monk and war tanking ST trash. I still need to do some more straightforward comparisons on lower level stuff as mob level is definitely making a difference w/r/t AC effectiveness.

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If anyone wants to provide those min/max/interval numbers on existing parses I'd be happy to plug the data in.

I'll try to make this available too.

[koros]

Nice. Do you have the min/max hit of that mob you were tanking? If I can figure out the interval we can probably figure out really quickly how much of an effect AC is having.

[Throndor]

The Siren's den in Siren's Grotto may also prove to be a somewhat effective place to gather parse data, as the mob types are very limited and lvl ranging is minimal while still providing consistently above-lvl-55 mobs.

Sleeper's Tomb's trash mob-level varies considerably, and may prove problematic in obtaining consistency in your independent variables (the mob's lvl, class-type etc).

[Throndor]

Send me a tell if u catch me on this weekend. I can hop over to test with a beta buffed cleric, and my chanter to slow and extend the window which u can keep your tank's propped up if u want a prolonged test.
For the sake of consistency, you probably shouldn't even kill the mob your using to parse, and just camp or blur the mob between parses, although maintaining agro without dmg may be a bit problematic with a warrior/monk.