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#431
11-20-2019, 07:28 PM
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If all of your hypothetical proposed nerfs were done, it wouldn't come close to changing the environment the way charmquest negatively affects the game. | |||
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#432
11-20-2019, 07:29 PM
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Your shitty memory from 20 years ago isnt evidence
Sorry not sorry
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Originally Posted by Detoxx View Post I tried my hand at rotating with the casuals. It was at this point I decided to no longer be kind to the casuals as they have extreme short term memory. They did this to themselves, unfortunately. Quote: Originally Posted by Maner View Post No one in A/A cares that you aren't getting pixels. In fact after the last suspension wave the attitude is to stop letting the casual guilds get anything even remotely of value. | ||
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#433
11-20-2019, 07:30 PM
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#434
11-20-2019, 07:36 PM
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there have been a few charm guides dug up and posted here suggesting, with various degrees of interpretative nuance, that charm worked pretty much the same way on classic live
it wasn't easy though, and so most people never tried it. or even thought to. yes, the community did get better at sharing information and tactics over decades of emulation and tlp's. that's not an unreasonable assertion. whether people did charm killing (or bard kiting, for another related example) or not on a mass scale in year 1999 or 200x is something we can debate anecdotally, but imo it does not have a significant impact on the debate over MR rates, etc, which I think is the more important topic, and the one demanding numerical evidence that has so far been pretty much out of reach | ||
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Last edited by bubur; 11-20-2019 at 07:39 PM..
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#435
11-20-2019, 07:56 PM
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Oh and btw Who posted: Quote:
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Last edited by Nirgon; 11-20-2019 at 08:02 PM..
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#436
11-20-2019, 08:12 PM
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yeah it does seem at least by velious, charm is remembered by many in the raid scene. could it have been used for leveling at that time? i bet it was
my main take away from this thread tho is man, how people can get defensive over being told we didn't know a strat in 1999. calm down. i'm not questioning your intelligence directly it's not totally unrealistic that in the 12 months of classic, it didn't yet come to pass that people meta-gamed to figure out the charm kit, best gear, and easiest charm locations, then share that information to the broader community to be mimicked and repeated en masse. people might have done it and didn't compile and share the strats, because not everyone lived on usenet or everlore on a related note, couldnt a lv 50 necromancer charm mobs in pofear and kill ct by himself or some crazy shiz? wouldnt that pretty much demonstrate that charm may have been even MORE broken in vanilla? | ||
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#437
11-20-2019, 08:41 PM
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There was all sorts of stuff that people believed about stats - bolstered in part by very real stat effects that didn't get mentioned in character creation - such as the AC penalty from having below 75 Agility. Some of those beliefs: • High Charisma increased faction gains • Low charisma boosted the effectiveness of Fear and charm undead spells • Dexterity had an impact on fizzle / missed note chance • High Intelligence or Wisdom increased chances of hitting max damage nukes on int / wis classes respectively • Strength affected jump height • Agility affected run speed • Intelligence affected experience gain (thus why ogres and trolls leveled so slowly - back before we knew about the racial and class XP penalties!) Along with other strange urban legends like... • Light sources increased your aggro radius • Sitting in water made you regen mana faster • Food and drink could spoil, and the cheaper the item the faster the spoilage • Blunt / piercing / slashing damage followed the same damage resistances as in D&D • There were "secret zones" that only appeared on certain days or after certain quests (but no one knew where, exactly...) People hadn't sifted through everything in the game yet. There was a lot of stuff that people didn't know (like... how much mana or XP you had) and there was a ton of rumor, make-believe, assumption, and hearsay. | |||
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#438
11-20-2019, 08:54 PM
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Charm was used by Velious because of things like flowing thought and insanely better gear compared to classic. Enchanters didn't die in 3 hits from their charmed mobs anymore, etc. Like I said it comes back to things being "off" in general on P99. Channeling is one of the best examples that I think everyone can admit is broken compared to classic when you're lower level. It was shown earlier that CHA should not be used for Charm break checks past initial cast. Who knows if it's being doing or not for P99. It is a lot of nuance to the game that has been lost on eqemu and has clearly resulted in Enchanter being overpowered. It has nothing to do with remembering wrong or people learning the game better or anything else. P99 is not 100% accurate and Enchanter charm is still "off" especially from level 1-40. I could see 40+ Enchanters having the kind of charm control we see on P99. The problem is that level of control comes at level 12 on P99 as soon as they get the spell. There is a thread about the odd behavior of the RNG on P99. This plays into it as well. It's a combination of a ton of tiny inconsistencies that is producing this hoard of Enchanters and it is entirely specific to P99. There is a reason that even during Velious you didn't see 1/4 of the server playing Enchanter. It has gotten absurd here. Everyone knows Enchanter is over powered regardless of if it was like that in classic or not. It's no different than Necro would be if it was left classic. The only difference is Necro actually was that overpowered and Enchanter wasn't but it is on P99. Doesn't change that both Necro and Enchanter need to be nerfed to not result in an army of Necro/Enchanter alts monopolizing everything. Necro is done. Now it's Enchanters turn. Besids it might also break up the stale P99 raid scene that also heavily abuses charm. We all know as soon as Fear/Hate go in they'll be cleared same day and there will be an army of charmed pets doing the DPS to clear it in an hour or two. Trivialized content. Loot treadmill. Melees will line up to help clear and sit in a corner crying as charmed pets make their contributions laughable. I already see it all the time in the groups I'm in and I am not playing a melee. Melees feel totally useless in the face of Enchanter pets and are often seen as worse than just not having a melee to get in the way and require healing. Melees are only welcomed if the pet has backstab so that the pet DPS is even more overwhelming overpowered and trivializing. | |||
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