******Official politics thread ******

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jarn, ignoring all the infowars dogshit, the fact of the matter is, hundreds of thousands of economic migrants poured into Europe in 2016, and hundreds of thousands more are on their way or waiting in Libya right now.

These people are just in search of a better life, but they do not have the same values, education, ethics (not necessarily worse, but different), etc. The countries they come from are largely corrupt, dirty, and primitive. You can blame some of that on neo-Imperialism but you're naive if you think it isn't primarily due to culture, namely issues such as factionalism, lack of respect for the rule of law and due process, orthodox religious piety, lack of entrepreneurial spirit, etc. The people from those countries bring these values with them.

The influx of so many foreigners from countries with lower HDI's will permanently change Europe. Can you honestly say that it will be for the better?

When the Irish, Greeks, and Italians came to the USA, we had similar concerns. But the cultural quirks they brought were minor and they largely integrated within 1 or 2 generations. Sub-saharan Africa, on the other hand, is an entirely alien society, and while they are still motivated by the same human feelings and desires and are therefore relateable, successful government is build on the abstract, and requires that the citizenry have certain values. The Constitution of the United States would not have arisen if we were a Spanish colony. Our founding fathers were culturally influenced by the enlightenment political revolution in anglo Europe, specifically men like Locke and Voltaire who were products of liberal cultures.

Very good post but Iranians are better than Italians

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm not talking about "economic migrants", im talking about refugees, that's completely different. Migrating to france for work is actually pretty hard if you don't already have a contract already in a french company. Refusing someone that wants to emigrate here to find work when there is none is fine by me. Letting people running away from isis and assad drown in the mediterranean by the tens of thousand is not only immoral, it's also illegal according to treaties that we signed ( cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_law ). Why the fuck do you sign that kind of treaties to just ignore when shit actually gets tough ? Are human rights only important when everything is right ? no, they're never been more important than during times of darkness. Call me an idealist if you want.

Now there's different situations in europe. Like France accepted to take in 30,000 refugees, which is honestly low, but the situation is kinda different than in germany for example. Germany is basically losing population right now, so taking in lots of migrants is economically speaking a smart move. Not sure about sweden, i don't know enough about their demography. France has one of the highest natality in europe, second only to ireland i think, so i guess in a pure economical thinking, why would you take in refugees ?

..which is why there should be an actual agreement on who should take refugees. And yes, USA should too, they have a high responsibility as a country on what's happening in the middle east right now. May i also remind everyone here that arab countries already take most of them..

It is morally reprehensible, indeed repugnant, to subsidize failed conditions that others by no fault of their own but perhaps for the idiocy and willful delusion of placating their own conscience or in assenting as accessory to placating those of others, might come to share in the burden of their inefficacy and still others yet unknown to this world might know from their first breath to their last, their birthright, the penance of such noble men's selfish ambitions, misery.

be they fleeing corruption or violence or the tragedy of their own inadequacy, every breath allotted is uncounted more into the lungs of those who may only ever know suffering and one denied another whose contribution is sure and measured, one by whom society might know progress, that man may survive, asserting his permanence and denying that of suffering.

[Patriam1066]

813
Hail Mossadegh

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm not talking about "economic migrants", im talking about refugees, that's completely different. Migrating to france for work is actually pretty hard if you don't already have a contract already in a french company. Refusing someone that wants to emigrate here to find work when there is none is fine by me. Letting people running away from isis and assad drown in the mediterranean by the tens of thousand is not only immoral, it's also illegal according to treaties that we signed ( cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_law ). Why the fuck do you sign that kind of treaties to just ignore when shit actually gets tough ? Are human rights only important when everything is right ? no, they're never been more important than during times of darkness. Call me an idealist if you want.

Now there's different situations in europe. Like France accepted to take in 30,000 refugees, which is honestly low, but the situation is kinda different than in germany for example. Germany is basically losing population right now, so taking in lots of migrants is economically speaking a smart move. Not sure about sweden, i don't know enough about their demography. France has one of the highest natality in europe, second only to ireland i think, so i guess in a pure economical thinking, why would you take in refugees ?

..which is why there should be an actual agreement on who should take refugees. And yes, USA should too, they have a high responsibility as a country on what's happening in the middle east right now. May i also remind everyone here that arab countries already take most of them..

Now i refuse your talk about "culture". By your standards, france should not accept american immigrants because you have a culture of violence with guns etc. Guess what, i don't care if you come to france as long as you respect the Law here. And it should be the same everywhere. You go to any country, whether it be the US, France, israel or north korea, when you go there, you respect the law, period. And yes, i disagree with you on :

Relatively few of those "refugees" are actually fleeting from Syria or ISIS. More than half are actually economic migrants from Afghanistan or Subsaharan Africa who enter under asylum (refugee) status. Additionally, I'm talking about all of Europe, not just France. Italy is far less discerning about what to do with the tens of thousand who wash up on their shores, and you're in the EU, so those refugees are your problem as well.

The West does NOT have a responsibility to accept refugees. We did not cause the failure of these countries. In fact, flooding the West with third world immigrants will only reduce the ability of the West to advance the interests humanity through prosperity. The West does however have a choice about whether to help refugees depending on the aggregate personal morality of their population, whether they choose to do it as a society, out of compassion rather than our of obligation.

Whether or not you respect the law or not depends on the extent to which it aligns with your personal values. Americans and French are similar enough in that regard it wouldn't be a big issue. But many of these people coming in literally believe, as a matter of personal and religious philosophy and as a deep-seated aspect of their way of life, that women should not have rights, that church and state should be intertwined, and that atheists should be killed or at very least shunned by society.

Now that's all fine as long as they eventually assimilate, but that's not going so well is it? You know damn well that the majority of these refugees form enclaves where they primarily associate with their own kind and their beliefs and values persist, rather than being replaced by French ones.

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can have africans dying for france in the mud of the somme, a black slave rise to napoleon marechal fighting for The Empire, have a black general fighting for free france in world war 2, have some of the greatest french-speaking writers coming from africa.. Have a black woman, who actually was initially fighting for the independance of french guyana, fronting the law for gay marriage in the french assembly, have a minister born in south korea appointed to defend french culture .. Hey we even had a senegalese born minister, she actually tried to run for president at the last election..!

but NO. THEY'RE BLACK. THEY'RE NOT FRENCH. THEY CAN'T BE FRENCH. FRENCH IS WHITE. FRANCE IS NOT FRANCE ANYMORE.. THEY DIRTY PRIMITIVE MONKEYS.

Fuck you. In world war 2, US commandment sent a memo to the french army on how to treat american black people.. that wasn't that far from what i hear again today about refugees, blacks, or muslims.. they rape.. they're a danger to the "white race".. that intimacy between white girls and black male is unwanted (hurr white genocide)..

I have the honour to be born in a country that gifted the world with one idea: that no Man, wherever he is, whatever he believes in, wherever he comes from.. has unalienable and universal rights. I refuse to classify "cultures" or "races" or whatever other word you choose. You think the ideas of Rousseau and Voltaire only applied to white people ? Nope. It applies to Man.

Why are you making this about race?

Why approach this so narrowmindedly that you refuse to even try to understand one of the most important human concepts and the deeply influential ways it is intertwined with politics, economics, and your everyday life?

Culture is the only truly valid way to classify groups of people, of course stopping short of prejudicially generalizing those qualities to individuals.

By plugging your ears and going "nananananana" you're willfully going into the prospect of optimizing politics and the wellbeing of your country totally blind, while at the same time pridefully trumpeting the achievements of your own culture (Voltaire, Cesaire). Refuse to think about culture? Please. What makes France France, Jarnauga? Is it because you live in France? Is it because you live inside certain lines on a map? Or is it your customs.

And by the way, France was never a shining example of tolerating on the basis of belief. Voltaire was, France wasn't. Look what you fuckers did to the Huguenots. Even today, your government and society overwhelmingly expect that immigrants eventually accept French values.

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also want to know how with old colonies sparking a good chunk of africa we didn't collapse with obviously migrants coming from there.. You know that algeria was france 60 years ago ? like, you were an algerian and could take the boat and live in france, etc ? did we collapse ..?

Whatev, i can't believe i'm still reading that kind of stuff in 2017. I'll just go to bed and swiftly quote Aimé Césaire, maybe the greatest black french speaking writer:

Because Algeria was administered by France, providing stability and prosperity. They didn't have a reason to evacuate en masse until after decolonization. (not that Algeria ever did much of that anyway)

[Ahldagor]

Jesus titty fucking Christ. Are we so lost in our nerdery that you must grab 'em by the pussy? Y'all ever think that the generation stuck in school because they're more fucking freightened of dying than an over dosing stripper getting gang fucked without having been paid is incapable of pulling themselves up by anything? Seriously, eat pussy.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously, eat pussy.

Not since I heard what happened to Michael Douglas!

[Pokesan]

https://youtu.be/moNHfeBJ81I

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not since I heard what happened to Michael Douglas!

Or Val Kilmer

Even younger age

[Rader]

Hey Jar Jar, besides excusing asshole boys for raping a defenseless old crippled lady, and using Chiraq (a city everyone acknowledges as a compete hellhole, at least in the gang-controlled sections) as your counterpoint to justify France's muslim enclaves, you are making some really good points, impressive.

[mickmoranis]

hey rader how do you feel about organized religion, for example Catholicism?