Concerned

[ArunaGreen]

Also, LOL at how many people can't realize this is a troll. God damn. Some good ol red con trolling here.

[Morratiz]

After reaching the last page it dawned on me that I skipped OP's post due to length but read 14 pages worth of comments with no break.

I played myself...

[solleks]

Someone summarize OP in one sentence

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by solleks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone summarize OP in one sentence

I am King Shitforbrains and I once ruled all of Norrath!

[Sagus]

Originally Posted by HopefulButConcerned101 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hello all,

I cant tell you how happy I am to see this project. My little brother told me about it a few months ago, as I havent looked at EQ in a long time. I'm ecstatic! ... but a little disappointed and concerned about some of the things I am reading. I hope the staff seriously considers my points.

First, I played EQ on day 1. I was the first Wizard to hit level 50 on my server, Fennin Ro, and I am the one who lost to Drakky in the arena with my wizard, and then pvp'ed him for a win with my Enchanter the next day. I was also present for the famous "Leroy Jenkins" event, I was in the raid. I was also the first person to challenge Fironia Vie, and die horribly at the gates of Felwithe while the DM controlled toon opened the new zone, Fironia Vie. Needless to say I am as old school as it gets. Forgive me, but we are talking something like 20 years ago and my memory is not perfect, going forward here. I had characters on several pve servers, I founded the guild, "Elven Royal guard." I had characters on the base pvp server, the race war pvp server and the alignment based pvp server (frakin newts!). two 50 Wizards, three 50 Enchanters, two 50 Necromancers, 50 Mage. As you can see I loved casters. I also soloed a paladin to 50 to prove a point (its not about being trained or ksed, its about being strategic, its not about spawn rates or being pl'ed, its about patience, thought, and tactics). ah, what was that awesome helm called...it had a heal spell, I cant remember, and of course a rubicite wearing 50 warrior, which they nerfed, along with all 3 of my chanters. lol. oh, and a 50 cleric. and a 50 druid. I was there when we freed the big dragon at the end, I was among the 10,000 corpses the first time we failed and she flew all over norrath killing everyone in every zone, regardless of level. Cant remember the dragons name, the sleeper? or nagafen? I think nagafen was in sol A?? I canna remember. I quit shortly after that, to many nerfs, to many whiners, game was not the same. So, my memory really fails at that point. oh lava duct crawlers! the coveted golden efreeti boots, nagafen was sol b?

Anyways, here goes....

What made original EQ awesome was not just the difficulty, it was the competition and the exploration. These 3 things played a pivotal role in the game, creating a realistic social atmosphere. But most of all, the DM interaction and events. I will give examples coming up, but first lets talk about spawn reduction. Being boxed in at the newbie zone and racial starting area was part of the game. This did a few things. You met lots of people, right off! It created a bond between the players starting in these zones. People fantasizing about being the good guy started as high elves or wood elves, they had like minds, saw the game and their role similarly, and the same went for people playing dark elves, they wanted to be evil, and had that same mentality. My favorite was Felwithe and Kelethin. The crushbone orcs and orc hill, especially on the pvp servers. I had more fun guarding orc hill with my 4th enchanter, keeping her at level 16, permanently, fighting against level 12 dark elf pk'ers, hunting newbs in crushbone on the pvp server in my guild, Royal elven guard, than anywhere else, or in any other game. You were crowded in and forced to be social, you had to either befriend people and join them, or make enemies and compete with them. Survival by natural selection, if you cant group, you will level slow and be left behind. This caused tension. Tension is social. You also memorized your zone, the spawns, the drops, etc, as you were stuck here for a bit, and it gave you time to learn before you reached higher levels, and a reason to start new characters of other races. Dying 50 times in the newb zone taught you how NOT to die in the higher level zones, where losing exp really hurt. That's why those punk snowflakes sucked so bad at level 50, they were PL'ed by wizards using ice comet, and had no idea how to use their character in a group. I had 3 enchanters BECAUSE I wanted to start in different areas, with different races. My elf Wizard was level 50 before I ever saw Paneel, I made my erudite, specifically to enjoy this area. I was a master player, and the highest level on my server (I am literally 1 of the first 10 people to ever hit level 50 in EQ), and had never seen that side of the world, it was almost like playing a new game. A loving high elf enchanter in felwithe, an evil dark elf mage in Nektolus, an arrogant erudite wizard in paneel, roleplay meant something, and is social. This also made you a guide to characters of other races, a reason to make friends as you all spread out from home, while keeping a level of loyalty to said starting zone (role- players/ remember the purple tag?). It was also part of the difficulty. Fast spawns effected how you pulled, when you pulled and where you pulled to. You could get really messed up in that forest fort with the giants, they spawned so fast. It was part of the calculation when pulling, and part of the crowding. Competing for camps was an issue, and remember every issue becomes a social event. "Train to zone" was a common occurrence, and players had to learn how to cope with it. Not standing in the middle of the road in front of the zone, thinking you were safe to med up. Fear of death ment something, it was the core of the game, dying and losing 2 days of experience was a nightmare, and made you play better. Made you think, made you work as a teammate far better. I built social bonds with many people. I became famous, because I guarded the zone entrances with my enchanter, dropping an area mesmerize, and then a mem blur on entire trains, saving countless lives. Karnors keep, the left side for zoning in the right side for zoning out, that was all me, because I guarded the entrance with mesmerization to stop trains for my guild as they held the keep. I got into so many groups and made so many friends, just because of that. The games today suck, you just respawn, no harm no foul. That is a joke to a serious EQ player back in the day. Dying was punishment, dont die! Play smart. There was no safe place. The mobs were abundant, spawning everywhere and walking around, pathing everywhere. It took sometimes hours to find what you thought was a safe pulling point. There was no safe place, the game was not designed to be a solo game. Shamans were not making SoW potions so people could run across norrath, only the poor and those who sucked did that, everyone else took a port. Shamans sold sow pots so you could navigate the wild areas, due to nonstop respawns and pathing. A way to escape death, train to zone! These are the tactics the original programmers used to force social interaction. Reducing spawn rates gives Necros and Mages complete dominance over the zone (this is exactly why everyone today thinks they are OP). Fear kiting was dangerous, you never knew when your target would walk into the path of another mob. Killing the mob fast was the mages thing, if he didnt, the mob would spawn again right on top of his rooted enemy, we called them adds, and this is why enchanters were important. You negate the purpose of the enchanter if there is no threat of nonstop adds. And then of course there are pvp players. Sneaking into your racial, or alignment enemies newb zones was fantastic fun. If you were spotted, they would be yelling your location out in the zone. What made sneaking hard was a multitude of invis seeing undead, respawning and walking everywhere. Chanters turning into trees to avoid being seen by the newb party and then having to slowly crawl away without them noticing the tree was moving, so you could invis undead before that random skele crossed your path, you see him coming!!! You cant get into the dark elf city to hunt lower level guards if you cant get pass the high level gate guards. This is WHY level 1 skeles were everywhere in newb zones. This is why they had a spawn rate of 30 seconds, and this is why they had agro toward any level. You have taken a major part of the social interaction out of the game, and lowered the difficulty bar tremendously by reducing spawn rates. Your not going to attract the original player base by pandering to the very people who couldn't handle this type of higher level game play that led to the fall of EQ and the rise of garbage like WoW. The precedent today is how easy can we make it. Original EQ was not children, it was young adults looking for a challenging environment. You cannot release something called original EQ, and right off the rip nerf the starting zones. That initial struggle MATTERS, and sets the stage for the rest of the game.

Exploration was a big deal. Slowly, advancing from zone to zone, with the tension of imminent death looming over your head while you searched for a new place to hunt in at your level was surreal. Higher level mobs, stalking you as you traversed the wild. Trying to avoid being spotted while they pathed everywhere. I dont see how you can avoid removing this, as everyone playing knows the world, and is just recreating a character, but possibly finding a way to move some things would be nice. I remember stumbling upon a cave, hidden in a forest under some brush. It was a whole zone! noone even heard of it....the place with all the giant floating sperm cells. I cant remember the name. what a laugh though.

Kill stealing..everyone hated it. but it was part of the social atmosphere. You did not want to solo as a tank when a mage could come along and one shot your kill to finish him off and grab the experience, infuriating!! but this caused warriors to find groups. Now we have a reason for the cleric. Instead of warriors sitting forever, they are looking for that cleric buddy, a big part of EQ was warriors and clerics learning how to support each other. Warriors learning to protect the cleric even if everyone else in the group dies. The cleric can res, and only he can (there were very few paladins I my time). That bond mattered at high levels, it mattered in raids, it created friends, and in the KSer's case, enemies. Everything that forced the group ... removed the solo player. If you want an easy solo play, then we have Skyrim. EQ was a group game. KSing revealed a characters personality, you knew that Gergeo375 was a bad guy, he is known for ksing. You now know that he will grab the rare loot w/o the groups consent soon as the mob falls. Bad guys matter, they are part of the real social environment. There were parties specifically designed to punk a solo mage kser. I made a Mage specifically to KS (an evil dark elf mage, so acted evil). It was my mission with that mage. I had fun searching for parties I could KS, and they had fun trying to stop me. I made enemies with that mage too. I was hated on that server, HATED. But that was part of it. My enchanter was loved, famous, and sought out by everyone. I logged in with my enchanter and immediately received 100 tells with people wanting to me join them, even begging me. I logged in with my Mage on a different server and immediately received 100s of tells with people hunting me. I had bounty's placed on my head. People trying to train me, looking for me, finding me, waiting patiently for me to engage something, and then dragging a train on me. All, more social interaction. More comradery. Better teams. More fun. The bad guys give the good guys a reason to team up, otherwise they are sitting by themselves bored. Grinding, grinding, grinding. Then that kser hits them a few times, now we have a party, a party searching for a mage in an forest infested with giant wasps, that respawn every 30 seconds, and path everywhere. They are locked in nonstop combat looking for the boss mob, that fricken ksing mage! and when they find him, the thrill of the fight is amazing. and look, they jumped 2 levels in the process of being in a group. 6 hrs went by and noone realized it. Shat man, I got to go to work! (I realize that's predominately a pvp server thing/but it was also when players chose to be pvp on pve servers, when they engaged pvp they became pvp with him, also nerfed though)but nothing beats the NICE cleric, if you run a nice cleric, not a prick who thinks you owe him, you are god in original EQ. log in, crash, log in crash, log in, only 500 tells this time. ehehe

Controlling raid zones and high level zones was part of the guild dynamic. SON, seekers of norrath, was famous for owning the outer plane zones on my main server. You either joined them (more social interaction) or you joined someone else to compete with them (more social interaction) or made some kind of treaty, or bargain with them to hunt there. or 5 smaller guilds banded together and raided SON first, then the held the zone. On the pvp server, this led to wars, which is the point of pvp. We had wars of 100 vs 100 that sometimes got so out of hand the server would crash. Wars... this also goes to the DM interaction. I cant remember the name of the forest, it was above the halfling city. It was basically a good zone, lighted nicely, and low level. The DM's held an event where they raided half the countryside with mid to high level undead, several of which were named 50+ level undead kings (DM controlled) and half of the server population participated. We were on the phones calling people to get on their character and help us!! People called out of work, or left early to get in on this giant war with the DM undead army. This is why EQ was called EVERCRACK. When it was done and said, we lost, the people of norrath lost, and that zone was forever changed to a dark forest, filled with high level undead (kithicor, yes?). It had an actual game changing effect. At that point, we never knew wth the DM's would do. Guilds really mean something now. You wanted to be part of a guild so you could deal with DM's raids against your zones. Zones started to become "yours." Bixbie invasions, giant bee things with human heads were hell, and helluva fun. DM's taking control of the festering hags in Unrest was the greatest fun. I see you guys talking about not wanting trains. Banning people for training. In the original EQ, the vanilla version that you want to simulate here, the DM's themselves deliberately created trains and ran the entire population right out of Unrest. Train to zone!!! A DM created train. We had to form up in groups and go in with a strategy to overcome being wiped from a festering hags train (high levels guarding low levels) and that fricken giant hand!! the god DM. we would bond together, 3 or 4 major guilds and come running to kill that train and reclaim Unrest. 15 hours to organize and execute. Again, social interaction. There will be nothing nostalgic about vanilla EQ w/o DM interaction. It'll be a game with poor graphics and alot of stress that holds the attention of only a few die hard players. It wont take long before they go back to their established characters, guilds, and friends, on w/e server they are currently playing on. I will not come back to play a 20 year old game with Nintendo level graphics, w/o the DM interaction, w/o the trains, and w/o the nonstop frenzy spawning and pathing. It wont be hard, it will be boring. Nostalgia will not be there, its not the same game. Anti-socializing is what killed EQ to begin with. I started a character not to long ago, to play with my little brother. Everyone is soloing with a merc, double or triple boxing multiple characters and there is very little social interaction. Lots of talk maybe, but not interaction with their toons in the fight against mobs and each other. It reminds me of an old AOL chat room. If the community is begging for original EQ then you need to give them original EQ, not just another server that completely misses the point of original EQ, which was, again, social interaction, TEAMS. These level 85 SK's I was shown, this is a whole different game now, what they call EQ now, is totally different. Guy running through a zone pulling 100 mobs and killing them all with an aoe is retarded. I mean these are blue cons, in my day it took a group to kill a single blue con, or a well armed twink and his cleric buddy, unless you wanted 5 minutes of downtime after every fight. Why not play diablo? that is not EQ, what I was shown is a far cry from original EQ. Minimizing my screen to switch characters spell or action after spell or action, the strategy being the best combo of spells, never the best teamwork. If these guys want Original EQ, then understand most of old EQ was outside. Was trains, ksing, and running for your life due to nonstop spawning. Learning, planning, and executing a strategy to pull safely to the place your team called "camp" Only necros soloed, and 50% of the time they were begging to join soemones group. They remade the necro and gave him all this mana swapping crap specifically so he could group, because even the solo class itself, couldnt really solo. and that was the first major unbalance of the game.

The horror show of difficulty WAS original EQ. Corpse running, paying a cleric 200 plat for a 90% rez. Renting a necro to grab your corpse and drag it from harm, or negotiating with a guild, yours or someone elses to fight their way to the bottom of Sol B for a corpse retrieval, a 6 hour fight, a quest, a player created quest. A guild of 30, 8 of them dying en route to your corpse, more corpse runs, everyone stressed, and then the final satisfaction of retrieval. Paying wizards for teleports to keep from running for 3 hours across the plains. Negotiations, friends, deals, enemies, all part of the social interaction. Enchanters mezzing entire parties in pvp, charming the wizard and setting him against the cleric, then re-messing, and wiping the melee one at a time (also nerfed). 1 guy takes all 6 of you out, while you rant at each other in chat about it! or you resist that mes! and the chanter is running for dear life, the exhilaration of rooting him and killing him! the REVENGE!!! nothing feels better. That heart pumping, "I'm gonna get that guy!" every class had a niche it could fill, and w/o each other we were screwed. Necros holding entire camps, Mage KSers, Wizard robberbarrons, Enchanter warmongers, Druid lifesavers, the ever elusive cleric, the struggling paladin, the sucky warrior who suddenly becomes the key to everything high level, the tricky rogue, the rich shaman, etc. You take away the bad stuff and the good stuff is meaningless.

The stress, and tension made EQ famous. The complaints of the snowflakes killed it. "why cant I spawn with my armor on?" because dying is punishment.
"why did I lose all my experience when I died" because dying is punishment
"They spawn to fast, its to hard to pull" Then practice, and learn, get innovative
"what does pulling mean?" pfft

"why do all the players suck?" because there is no consequence for being stupid.

Dont lower the spawn rates.
Create DM controlled events.
Dont punish Ksers, or trainers.
Dont block guilds from holding zones.
That is vanilla EQ.

Deepwater helm? was that it? the solo paladins dream, oh and a shiny new mithril 2hander with a hand me down fbss

that is old school EQ.

Twinks. The beloved twink in your group, who can hold that horde of bandits long enough to pull that TRAIN TO ZONE.

NOOOO! I died right as I zoned and my body collapsed on the other side of the wall!!

cry...

That is old school EQ.

Its the emotion. I can only think of 2 other games that had it in the last 30 years. Eve online, and Rust.

The new players are hearing from the old players how cool the game was. You yourself must remember it or you wouldn't be doing this project. Keep the emotion in the game. Keep the hate and the anger. Its what drives us. The frustration is what gives the feeling of satisfaction. Your newbie EQ players, and yea almost all of you are newbies to us, are already complaining about the very things that were taken out and ruined the game. It wasn't luclin that ruined EQ, it was the whiners. It got boring and then WOW stole the show. Then they did it to wow, and wow sucked and now everyone is scattered amongst 50 crap wannabee MMO's all dreaming of original EQ.

I pray you reconsider adjusting the spawn rates, that one thing will bring me back. Brad was the genius, not you. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Follow his model.

Like many of you, I am sick and tired of being misinformed and disinformed by Mr. HopefulButConcerned101. That's why I'm writing this, to bring meaning, direction, and purpose into our lives. Although the pressing need for encouraging open, civic engagement is acknowledged here, the main focus of this letter regards HopefulButConcerned101's desire to bar workers from participation in the social totality as fully developing individuals. Speaking of footling vermin, he is willing to promote truth and justice when it's convenient. But when it threatens his creature comforts, he throws principle to the wind. It's time for us to mobilize and speak up against his piteous hate sheets. Silence and apathy perpetuate the ignorance and obfuscate the fact that the reason HopefulButConcerned101 wants to perform the most inhumane acts of violence Norrath has ever seen is that he's completely obnoxious. If you believe you have another explanation for his semi-intelligible behavior, then please write and tell me about it.

I want my life to count. I want to be part of something significant and lasting. I want to explain why credentialism is a failed philosophy. (Hint: It's because it denies the realities of human nature and teaches that terrorism resonates with the body's natural alpha waves.)

According to the latest claims, if HopefulButConcerned101 would abandon his name-calling and false dichotomies it would be much easier for me to ensure that everyone knows that muting the voice of anyone who dares to speak out against HopefulButConcerned101 is a mug's game. The only reason he does things like that is because the emphasis his cajoleries place on personal victimization includes a refusal to hold obdurate, vapid dissemblers in any way responsible for their actions. Nevertheless, when it comes to accepting or rebuking his primitive, unruly missives, we are faced with the same choice that Moses gave Israel: good or evil, light or dark, life or death, freedom or slavery. One shouldn't need to think too hard about those options to realize that HopefulButConcerned101's ability to capitalize on the economic chaos, racial tensions, and social discontent of the current historical moment can be explained in large part by the following. HopefulButConcerned101's arguments would be a lot more effective if they were at least accurate or intelligent, not just a load of bull for the sake of being controversial.

Was HopefulButConcerned101 just trying to be cute when he said that he was there in Everquest when Leeroy did what he did? I sure hope so because if I am correctly informed, he always represents himself as the victim, as betrayed and sinned against, demeaned and tormented because of society's jealousy. In any case, a large number of people, myself included, figured HopefulButConcerned101 would never stoop so low as to institutionalize collectivism through systematic violence, distorted religion, and dubious science. Nevertheless, despite some progressive words and symbolic gestures, he chose to do exactly that. As a result, I can safely say that HopefulButConcerned101 champions deconstructionism, exploitation, and imperialist war. That said, let me continue.

If I withheld my feelings on this matter, I'd be no less dishonest than HopefulButConcerned101. I have some of his incoherent press releases in front of me right now. In one of them, HopefulButConcerned101 avouches that he's the most recent incarnation of the Buddha. If you don't find that shocking then consider that thoughtful people are being forced to admit, after years of evading the truth, that I have been right. I was right when I said that it is an indisputable verity that I myself find HopefulButConcerned101's failed attempts to sacrifice children on the twin altars of elitism and greed mildly amusing. I was right when I said that my concern and outrage are not directed solely at HopefulButConcerned101, but at all those who seek to trick us into trading freedom for serfdom. And I was right when I said that I do not find press releases that are libidinous, discourteous, and vain to be “funny”. Maybe I lack a sense of humor, but maybe HopefulButConcerned101 avows that power, politics, and privilege should prevail over the rule of law. This fraud, this lie, is just one among the thousands he perpetrates.

One of the enduring effects of HopefulButConcerned101's polemics is the way they will impose hypocritical new restrictions on society just to satisfy some sort of morally reprehensible drive for power. Not only does HopefulButConcerned101 use scapegoating as a foil to draw anger away from more accurate targets, but he then commands his drudges, “Go, and do thou likewise.” Don't let yourself be buffaloed by him. Don't let yourself be persuaded to believe that the kids on the playground are happy to surrender to the school bully just because a lot of philopolemical coofs happen to believe that. Analyze the arguments for yourself and see if you agree with my claim that HopefulButConcerned101 may unwittingly rob, steal, cheat, and murder. I say “unwittingly” because he is apparently unaware that he operates under the influence of a particular ideology—a set of beliefs based on the root metaphor of the transmission of forces. Until you understand this root metaphor you won't be able to grasp why HopefulButConcerned101 has abandoned ethics altogether. Disguised in this drollery is an important message: Conspiracy theories are HopefulButConcerned101's bread and butter, and the wilder, the better. His most outré claim is that everyone who scrambles aboard the HopefulButConcerned101 bandwagon is guaranteed a smooth ride. This claim sets a new standard for daffy, querulous tracts and shows how HopefulButConcerned101 has never had a single new idea. He has merely gussied up old concepts in new rhetoric, most recently in the meretricious jargon of cannibalism. This leads to an important point: I have a dream that my children will be able to live in a world filled with open spaces and beautiful wilderness—not in a dark, lazy world run by rash, shambolic moochers.

It doesn't really matter why HopefulButConcerned101 wants to rot out the foundations of our values. Whether it's due to a misplaced faith in WoW, bribes paid to HopefulButConcerned101 by rude, indelicate malcontents, or nagging from some of the chuffy, gutless loons in his club, the fact remains that that's what HopefulButConcerned101 wants. What I want, in contrast, is to notify you that while he's out conscripting traditional academic disciplines into the service of prætorianism and its ideological variants, the general public is shouldering the bill. Sadly, this is a bill of shattered minds, broken hearts and homes, depression and all its attendant miseries, and a despondency about HopefulButConcerned101's attempts to sell us fibs and fear mixed with a generous dollop of obscurantism. I am not going to go into too great a detail about eccentric, incorrigible wantwits, but be assured that his assumptions are matched in their untenability only by the arrogant fervor with which they are held. In the presence of high heaven and before the civilized world I therefore assert that every time he utters or writes a statement that supports Chekism—even indirectly—it sends a message that he has the linguistic prowess to produce a masterwork of meritorious literature. I avow that we mustn't let him make such statements, partly because it shocks my conscience to see him scorn and abjure reason, but primarily because he has been trying for quite some time to convince us that it is not only acceptable but indeed desirable to nurture and spread totalitarianism in our nation's heartland. I suggest he take this rotting ordure and dump it where he and his fellow homicidal dunces congregate. At least then we could keep our priorities in check without having to worry that he will lower scholastic standards.

HopefulButConcerned101 has compiled an impressive list of grievances against me. Not only are all of these grievances completely fictitious, but HopefulButConcerned101 says that he wants to make life better for everyone. Lacking a coherent ideology, however, HopefulButConcerned101 always ends up making our lives miserable. He claims that the rest of us are an inferior group of people, fit only to be enslaved, beaten, and butchered at the whim of our betters. Predictably, he cites no hard data for that claim. This is because no such data exist.

There is a war being fought in the unseen realm between the forces of good and evil, and the battlefield is your mind. The only way for us to win this war is to produce a compelling model of a society worth struggling for. In the absence of such a model, churlish tosspots typically retreat into specific cultural and ideological identity groups that make rights, status, and privilege claims on the basis of a victimized identity. If you think that HopefulButConcerned101 isn't planning on exploiting such identity groups, then consider that this whole discussion has turned into a war of words between a few people. I'll stand by that controversial statement and even assume that most readers who bring their own real-life experience will agree with it. At a bare minimum, HopefulButConcerned101's cold-blooded swampers like to shout, “Let's doctor evidence and classification systems and make hubristic generalizations to support haughty, preconceived views. That'll be wonderful. Hooray, hooray!” But that won't be wonderful. Rather, it'll organize a troika of base-minded yahoos, moralistic pipsqueaks, and batty scoundrels with the sole purpose of dissolving the bonds that join individuals to their natural communities.

Many people respond to HopefulButConcerned101's lily-livered schemes in the same way that they respond to television dramas. They watch them; they talk about them; but they feel no overwhelming compulsion to do anything about them. That's why I insist we teach people that HopefulButConcerned101 indisputably wants me to go into hiding. If I did, I'm sure the chortles from HopefulButConcerned101 and his lynch mob would be rich and prolonged, especially given how HopefulButConcerned101 has been implementing a disingenuous parody of justice called “HopefulButConcerned101-ism”. Should doing so buy HopefulButConcerned101 the right to dialogue, negotiation, concessions, and power? I say no because I would love to debate HopefulButConcerned101 about his views on immoralism. Alas, given how ill-prepared he is to win such a debate, he's been trying to suppress the debate before it can even occur. Such behavior tells us that HopefulButConcerned101 is a distasteful hedonist. Consequently, attempting to respond to his effusions with logic is futile. A more productive response is to observe that HopefulButConcerned101 is an expert at calming his opponents with sweet inversions of the truth. In case you don't believe me, consider how he has managed to convince an alarming number of people that trees cause more pollution than automobiles do. He does this even though he knows full well that he claims to have data supporting his assertion that he's God's chosen instrument to save our nation from impending doom. Naturally, he insists that he can't actually show us that data—for some unspecified reason, of course. My guess is that he's hiding something. Maybe he's hiding the fact that a free and open society should be able to tolerate a diversity of beliefs and practices, even when they are at odds with his contemptible ruminations—perhaps especially when they are at odds with his contemptible ruminations. Finally, any mistakes in this message are strictly my fault. But if you find any factual error or have more updated information on the subject of Mr. HopefulButConcerned101, HopefulButConcerned101-inspired versions of authoritarianism, etc., please tell me so we can discuss and debate.

[DMN]

Concerned shitizen.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Please refrain from fully-quoting the OP. Thanks!

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by Pozzey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is seal teams fault.

I couldn't agree more!

[Naerron]

i read the first sentence and realized this dude must be new to the community for 3 reasons..His post seemed genuine, overall post length, and it felt like they thought they'd be taken seriously in the RnF section of these forums.

These are the things I, a warrior of the 60th circle, have observed.

[Pozzey]

Originally Posted by Naerron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a warrior of the 60th circle

Lul... I love these guys.