So now that druid spells got hammered...

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't get it. If druids are nerfed back to classic and another class isn't, this is pareto better than if they just kept every class in its un-classic form, since the goal of this server is to be classic. You have some weird concept of fairness where one class can't get a significant (and classically accurate) nerf unless all other classes do. I guess they should just stop patching the server until they find something to nerf for each class.

In the meantime, why don't you actually say what needs to be nerfed about mage pets and Enchanter charm? Why don't you bug report it (with evidence) and actually contribute to the project, instead of whining about it?

As for everyone else, if you don't like the changes, you should probably see if they're accurate first. http://waybackmachine.org/*/http://www.everlore.com is a good place to start.

I would say it's you who doesn't get it. Are druids taking down Brother Z or soloing every camp in LGuk? Are druids even the preferred powerlevelers?

The inaccuracies of druid dot stacking, damage shield duration and SoW/SoC stacking had very little impact on anyone except the lowbies begging for DS in EC tunnel.

Imbalances in the other classes have skewed the entire history of the server.

I have no idea why I'm responding to and I won't again. You're a fucking idiot.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by I said

In the meantime, why don't you actually say what needs to be nerfed about mage pets and Enchanter charm? Why don't you bug report it (with evidence) and actually contribute to the project, instead of whining about it?

Originally Posted by To which you said

The inaccuracies of druid dot stacking, damage shield duration and SoW/SoC stacking had very little impact ... Imbalances in the other classes have skewed the entire history of the server.

What imbalances? Please actually respond instead of just recapitulating things you've already said.

Originally Posted by I said

If druids are nerfed back to classic and another class isn't, this is pareto better than if they just kept every class in its un-classic form, since the goal of this server is to be classic. You have some weird concept of fairness where one class can't get a significant (and classically accurate) nerf unless all other classes do. I guess they should just stop patching the server until they find something to nerf for each class.

Originally Posted by To which you said

(nothing)

I guess I understand why at the end of your post you committed to not responding to me again: you never had anything substantive to say in response to me in the first place, and further replies would just make it clearer how asinine this thread was.

Originally Posted by You said

You're a fucking idiot.

You sure argue civilly for a 50 year old [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[yaaaflow]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would say it's you who doesn't get it. Are druids taking down Brother Z or soloing every camp in LGuk? Are druids even the preferred powerlevelers?

The inaccuracies of druid dot stacking, damage shield duration and SoW/SoC stacking had very little impact on anyone except the lowbies begging for DS in EC tunnel.

Imbalances in the other classes have skewed the entire history of the server.

I have no idea why I'm responding to and I won't again. You're a fucking idiot.

Since you say you won't respond to Lazortag I'll ask:

How and what should be changed to mages and enchanters in order to make them more like classic? Is it specific mechanics that are broken that you would like to explain, or just hp/damage/etc numbers being incorrect?

Do you see any foolishness in asking for a blanket nerf on other classes because your preferred class got nerfed to be put more in line with classic?

edit: I mean obviously neither of us are particularly unbiased here - you like druids, I like mages, nobody likes their class being nerfed. On the other hand I've specifically requested nerfs to mages when I could prove they weren't like classic and if you can provide some evidence of mages being broken vs classic I'd be happy to do some further research into it and backup your findings.

[Ravhin]

I just find it hilarious that all these changes were posted, in detail, by Uthgaard SIX weeks ago, yet people are just complaining now because (shocker) they didn't try them out on beta.

[eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What imbalances? Please actually respond instead of just recapitulating things you've already said.

He is referring to Whirl till you Hurl like everyone else.

The story goes: It was nerfed 2 weeks (or whatever) into classic. Casting Tash + Whirl kept mobs chain stunned very very easily and it was really BS. Add single resist check, LONG duration root and there was barely any risk to the enchanter since even DDs-break-root didn't exist for awhile.

Basically two things happened when it got nerfed:

1. Instead of being "all or nothing" it gained a random duration like root! Now every time whirl did land it was for a random 0 to 12 seconds instead of the full 12 seconds. That straight up more than halved its effectiveness.

2. It became a mesmerize line spell in contrast to a stun line spell. This meant that if any melee hit the mob during those 0-12 seconds they broke the stun. Additionally a mobs attack would continue to refresh while stunned, allowing the mob to attack just as soon as the stun broke. This made it useless as a combat mez other than to keep the mob from beating the enchanter while they reevaluated or refreshed another spell.

So... Neither of these work here and enchanters are locking down mobs like Undertow and Estrella of Gloomwater with a much lower chance of failure.

Undertow normally kills a charmed seahorses guard taken from his spawn even with 60-70% haste and weapons to quad. With Whirl he rarely is able to cast Ice Commet as he literally spends most of the fight stunned while the pet DPSs.

I can't personally solo Estrella and so don't try. However I doubt she is supposed to be pleasant to kill at all either. (She is a 51 druid that starts out with a 29 DS and should cast Superior Healing at least as soon as the spell changes preceding Kunark.)

A certain enchanter who probably wont remain nameless for long spent months selling the shoulder items off of these mobs starting at around 35,000pp and 50,000pp respectively. This went on for several months and neither item dropped below 20,0000 pp in this time. That person alone obviously had the opportunity to make half a million platinum if not a full million or more off of this bug if not a few others, too. (Like mobs not pathing into LOS to cast and choosing to melee pitifully instead. Pathing in KK was JUST fixed patch before last.)

Sufficeth to say there is reason to be angry and frustrated.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by eriamjh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He is referring to Whirl till you Hurl like everyone else.

The story goes: It was nerfed 2 weeks (or whatever) into classic. Casting Tash + Whirl kept mobs chain stunned very very easily and it was really BS. Add single resist check, LONG duration root and there was barely any risk to the enchanter since even DDs-break-root didn't exist for awhile.

Basically two things happened when it got nerfed:

1. Instead of being "all or nothing" it gained a random duration like root! Now every time whirl did land it was for a random 0 to 12 seconds instead of the full 12 seconds. That straight up more than halved its effectiveness.

2. It became a mesmerize line spell in contrast to a stun line spell. This meant that if any melee hit the mob during those 0-12 seconds they broke the stun. Additionally a mobs attack would continue to refresh while stunned, allowing the mob to attack just as soon as the stun broke. This made it useless as a combat mez other than to keep the mob from beating the enchanter while they reevaluated or refreshed another spell.

So... Neither of these work here and enchanters are locking down mobs like Undertow and Estrella of Gloomwater with a much lower chance of failure.

Undertow normally kills a charmed seahorses guard taken from his spawn even with 60-70% haste and weapons to quad. With Whirl he rarely is able to cast Ice Commet as he literally spends most of the fight stunned while the pet DPSs.

I can't personally solo Estrella and so don't try. However I doubt she is supposed to be pleasant to kill at all either. (She is a 51 druid that starts out with a 29 DS and should cast Superior Healing at least as soon as the spell changes preceding Kunark.)

A certain enchanter who probably wont remain nameless for long spent months selling the shoulder items off of these mobs starting at around 35,000pp and 50,000pp respectively. This went on for several months and neither item dropped below 20,0000 pp in this time. That person alone obviously had the opportunity to make half a million platinum if not a full million or more off of this bug if not a few others, too. (Like mobs not pathing into LOS to cast and choosing to melee pitifully instead. Pathing in KK was JUST fixed patch before last.)

Sufficeth to say there is reason to be angry and frustrated.

Actually he said "Enchanter charm", so I don't think he was referring to Whirl - although I have no problem with Whirl getting nerfed (even though I have an enchanter). I think the silliness of this is that he claims that his class is unfairly nerfed, yet won't even bug report the nerfs he thinks should happen for mages/enchanters. By all means, try to get Whirl nerfed if you think it's classic - I just think that doing so with strong evidence and a good attitude in the Bugs forum is a lot more productive than what Alawen is doing. Basically, there's no reason it won't get changed if you can provide enough good evidence.

I also think Ravhin is totally right.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Mage pets are not supposed to all tank like earth and damage like fire.

Planar focus items are supposed to be a big deal, not be the same as Sol Ro.

Enchanter charm is supposed to break.

Solo enchanters with hasted, weaponed pets are supposed to die when it breaks about half the time. Two resists was usually too many.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage pets are not supposed to all tank like earth and damage like fire.

Planar focus items are supposed to be a big deal, not be the same as Sol Ro.

Enchanter charm is supposed to break.

Solo enchanters with hasted, weaponed pets are supposed to die when it breaks about half the time. Two resists was usually too many.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but why don't you actually post evidence for your claims (and bug report it) if you're so concerned?

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage pets are not supposed to all tank like earth and damage like fire.

Lol you don't understand the mage pet dynamic pre-kunark at all, do you?

And trust me, I don't care if my mage gets nerfed at all. It served its purpose in suiting up countless characters between me and RL friends and likely won't see much use in Kunark besides a CoH bot.

[Sorrow*qc]

my charm break all the time wtf are you talking about lol