Variance

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're missing the point about variance, because like a true blue all you care about is pixels.

The point of variance is not knowing exactly when the mob will spawn. This forces players to be active on the server and not just log in their mains one day a week. The leaders of holocaust only log on their mains one day to avoid deaths, sorry but that goes against the very spirit of what a pvp server should be about.

It's sad that we have to think of reasons to force people into pvp, on a pvp server but that is literally what it has become here. Truth is most of the players in zergs dont even want to play on this server they just don't want to wait in line on blue and would rather easy roll pixels with zergs.

Dum

also TLDR

[heals4reals]

bluebie would ask for variance

[GradnerLives]

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're missing the point about variance, because like a true blue all you care about is pixels.

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point of variance is not knowing exactly when the mob will spawn. This forces players to be active on the server and not just log in their mains one day a week. The leaders of holocaust only log on their mains one day to avoid deaths, sorry but that goes against the very spirit of what a pvp server should be about.

Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's sad that we have to think of reasons to force people into pvp, on a pvp server but that is literally what it has become here. Truth is most of the players in zergs dont even want to play on this server they just don't want to wait in line on blue and would rather easy roll pixels with zergs.

This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

[Kergan]

rekt

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by GradnerLives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.



Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.



This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

Your comparing blue to red...

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You wanna talk about logic..here's some real logic for you...

nothing can be worse than one guild getting every spawn...nothing!

We tried static spawns for 3 years doesn't work, so trying something new can't be any worse than the system we already have.

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[daasgoot]

Originally Posted by GradnerLives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.



Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.



This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

how will they know when the mob spawns? if they are all camped out except for a tracker, that tracker gonna get his shit pushed in. if they want to know when the mob spawns so they can batphone they will have to bring a force of people to fight whoever forced their tracker out of zone. long term pvp battles for zone control. also, you can't have all your toons parked in multiple zones, if more that 1 raid mob is in window then you will have to be more present and mobile securing control of multiple zones for trackers.

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by daasgoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

how will they know when the mob spawns? if they are all camped out except for a tracker, that tracker gonna get his shit pushed in. if they want to know when the mob spawns so they can batphone they will have to bring a force of people to fight whoever forced their tracker out of zone. long term pvp battles for zone control. also, you can't have all your toons parked in multiple zones, if more that 1 raid mob is in window then you will have to be more present and mobile securing control of multiple zones for trackers.

Pointless to argue this ramble his whole argument revolves around the idea that a tracker can sit in zones with no lvl limit unmolested. Which makes zero sense on red whatsoever.

They are reaching, they have no reason for how variance could be worse than the same people getting every mob in the game for 3 years by throwing warm bodies at it.

In his mind trackers like Quiet are just gonna sit in fear/hate/sebs/vp all day like it's a blue server.

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Yea ok, there goes that retarded theory!

[Drakaris]

Originally Posted by GradnerLives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's your response to any logic a player who has ever touched blue suggests. You also muddle your own point up by saying both: it will promote pvp and it will lead to more loot being spread across the board - a pvp and a pve factor - then saying that pvp is the only thing that matters. There are clearly pixel related implications, so a blue player's opinion on the matter is equal. That said, it won't lead to more pvp and you're wrong.



Variance began on the blue servers when guilds were literally showing up 2-3 days before a boss mob's spawn time and sitting at the spawn with 16 for 48-72 hours in order to be 'first in force'. No guilds were willing to negotiate (we... IB wasn't... and they were pretty much it...) and there was no way for blue guilds to compete without extensive GM handholding.

Variance did not lead to players becoming more active. In fact, IB and TMO players are quite sparing when a boss is not up. That's because they're camped out at a raid target in order to guarantee they're there first.

I have nothing against sniping, and I love PVP even if I'm awful at it on my main. That said, I don't think this system would lead to either of these things, even with a short (i.e. +/- 4-8 hours) variance, given that mobs would still have to be tracked for 8-16 hours. No one is going to sit in a zone in force for 8-16 hours waiting for a boss to spawn. That's ridiculous. Especially when they can get the same or better chance to down the target by simply camping out in force and answering batphone when it goes out.

I'd argue that there's even more online/mobile players under the current system. Right now, we know when bosses spawn so we don't have a reason to camp our characters out anywhere specific/out of the way except for a few specific days of the week.

If we're doing VP on a Thursday at 8pm, then people will do whatever they want until 7:30 then start moving to the raid. If PD is in window from 6am until 10pm that day, everyone will be camped out at a pull spot rather than running around doing what they want.

Since it will be ideal for spawn windows to be spread out through the week, rather than all occurring at once, mob windows will be pushed to overlap as little as possible and then pretty well every day there will be a place you need to be camped out and buffed.

Therefore, since people are logged out at targets for 8-16 hour windows instead of just a few hours, they won't be in other world zones or even online on their mains nearly as often. Less PVP.



This isn't an FPS or MOBA, it's a social MMO. Of course there needs to be incentivization for PVP. That's what brad gave us dragons for, b.

Sweetest post in this thread!

A++

Notice the people pushing for variance are Azrael players WHO DO NOT LOG ON THEIR CHARACTERS FOR ANYTHING BUT PD SNIPES?

You will seldom find their guild going out of their way, helping people camp fingerbone hoops, or doing random exp gorups... They will have their core farmers who do cross server plat trades/RMT and their gank squds...

They make 0 contribution to the community and shit things up with their excessive trolling and shit talking.

[GradnerLives]

Originally Posted by daasgoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

how will they know when the mob spawns? if they are all camped out except for a tracker, that tracker gonna get his shit pushed in. if they want to know when the mob spawns so they can batphone they will have to bring a force of people to fight whoever forced their tracker out of zone.

In zones with enforced pvp range, a lvl 1 ranger will suffice as mentioned earlier. In zones with no enforced pvp range you can simply bind in zone or login/logout on a regular interval. Nevertheless, the goal of the tracker will simply be to see if the mob is up, not to avoid getting killed. Multiple trackers also trivialize it.

Who do you think's going to burnout first? the guild spending 24 hours a day tracking and killing lvl 1 rangers, or the guild whose tracker has to look up at the screen every so often?

Originally Posted by daasgoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

long term pvp battles for zone control.

What's the point of zone control if your entire force is going to login buffed at the target within 2-3 minutes of a batphone? Worst case scenario, you login to PVP fully buffed/ready and vastly outnumbering the opposition, best case scenario they actually try to snipe it and get dunked once your overwhelming force appears out of thin air.

Originally Posted by daasgoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also, you can't have all your toons parked in multiple zones, if more that 1 raid mob is in window then you will have to be more present and mobile securing control of multiple zones for trackers.

Many people have multiple 60's they can camp at multiple targets.

TMO never had a problem keeping control even with FTE rules and many examples of overlapping windows over the course of their domination of blue. You push the spawn windows to overlap as little as possible, and then you can prioritize based on a %chance to spawn (based on how late the target is in its window) and how difficult it is to mobilize (trak, VP, Fay as good examples of tougher mobilization).

If trakaman is in window and so is CT, you camp at trak ledge ready to port to CT if necessary since trak is harder to clear to and fear is a port and a zone away. If PD has 2 hours left in window and trak just entered window, you stay logged at PD since he's most likely going to spawn before trak because he's later in his window. Not rocket science.

Whatever way you look at it, less PVP than we have currently.

[GradnerLives]

Remember, also, as I think you guys are missing this. A tracker does not have to be a class with track. Almost every mob in the game can be face tracked from a safe vantage point.

If they bind there, then you can kill them all you want. I'm sure it will be good for you elite leaderboard status. You still won't be ruining anyone's chance at catching the dragon.