Raid Changes

[Tarathiel]

ok bro, i quit eq before velious was even released back in the day. and i can tell you with 100% conviction that "poop socking" "rules lawyering" and "FTE shit fests" did not exist back then. neither did variance. so at least from my point of view rotations are fully classic

[Quizy]

Originally Posted by Tarathiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ok bro, i quit eq before velious was even released back in the day. and i can tell you with 100% conviction that "poop socking" "rules lawyering" and "FTE shit fests" did not exist back then. neither did variance. so at least from my point of view rotations are fully classic

"forced rotations" also did not exists, they were agree'd upon by leaders of top guilds on the server.

[Tarathiel]

Originally Posted by Quizy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"forced rotations" also did not exists, they were agree'd upon by leaders of top guilds on the server.

so whats the problem here? it seems like every guild on this server is in favor of a rotation with the exception of one.....

[Tarathiel]

double post oops

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Quizy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i really think its just the server needing Velious really bad.

On live, "casual" guilds did not have the time to gear up like a well oiled raiding full time guild did, due to the speed of the development cycle. Casuals would take their time to max level a few hours here and there. They would also be able to get a raid mob once or twice a week when their guild needed to. Example; before i became more hard core on live i was excited about a short sword of morin quest. Velious would help us get out of each others way. If you guys want to rush to NTOV, do giant armor faction, get to sleepers tomb and farm primals for the rest of your life go ahead. Casuals will eat up the higher kunark content, then work through dwarf faction armors etc etc. The development schedule is out of wack which causes problems.

We can't do anything about that. We can live with each other, even if it is just temporary, until velious is here.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I find the strong desire for forced rotations to be potentially troublesome.

To explain, I came from Prexus which, for good or bad, had one of the last and certainly the broadest rotation system in EQ for its time. Because the rotations were open to all guilds, they eventually ballooned to immense proportions. Guilds were having to wait over 17 weeks for VS. This caused all sorts of problems. It also gave other guilds an artificial reason to stay on the rotations. The top guilds continued to "take a number" and kill spawns uncontested to pad their guild bank. Had the rotations not been in place, the top guilds would have quickly left that content behind.

That said, P99 has fewer players, a longer development cycle so players will not abandon content so quickly, and more GM involvement.

Rotations might work, but be careful what you wish for. True, rotations would give guilds access to mobs they had previously never seen. Some kills are better than no kills. However, in the long run, it might harm the number of targets for any given mid-tier guild. Without rotations, smaller guilds are forced to seek alliance and collaboration. With rotations, everyone wants to run their own raid guild, and they can thanks to uncontested spawns.

I believe that simulated patches with FTE shouts, while maintaining the variance, is clearly the superior (but not only) option. Simultaneous spawns dilutes monopoly powers. If the "patches" are announced, smaller guilds with lesser mobilization skills can still compete.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by Tarathiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ok bro, i quit eq before velious was even released back in the day. and i can tell you with 100% conviction that "poop socking" "rules lawyering" and "FTE shit fests" did not exist back then. neither did variance. so at least from my point of view rotations are fully classic

I played on Tallon Zek, no rotations on anything until mabye end of Luclin content, and even then it was on maybe two mobs and just between two guilds who had a non agression pact. The top guild did not participate.There was also absolutely no poop socking, didn't even know the term till I played here. So neither of those are classic from my perspective.

I'm actually surprised that you saw rotations on mobs before Velious.

[Danyelle]

Velious, while most definitely necessary, is not the answer to everyone's problems. It is a temporary fix at best. Akin to wearing a band-aid or duct taping the rearview mirror back onto your pickem-up truck. The issues at hand in Kunark would simply move over to Velious. If Luclin were released the issues in Velious would move over to Luclin. Content releases aren't a fix they delay the inevitable. There needs to be an overall shift in the way content functions or rule changes, otherwise no one on this server will be happy, barring those at the top (Whoever that may be at any given point in time. It may not always be TMO. It was not always Fires of Heaven, nor was it always Triality, nor was it always Inglorious Basterds. Top guild shifts happen, frequently. Regardless who is at the top, they will be the only ones happy with things as they stand.)

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find the strong desire for forced rotations to be potentially troublesome.

To explain, I came from Prexus which, for good or bad, had one of the last and certainly the broadest rotation system in EQ for its time. Because the rotations were open to all guilds, they eventually ballooned to immense proportions. Guilds were having to wait over 17 weeks for VS. This caused all sorts of problems. It also gave other guilds an artificial reason to stay on the rotations. The top guilds continued to "take a number" and kill spawns uncontested to pad their guild bank. Had the rotations not been in place, the top guilds would have quickly left that content behind.

That said, P99 has fewer players, a longer development cycle so players will not abandon content so quickly, and more GM involvement.

Rotations might work, but be careful what you wish for. True, rotations would give guilds access to mobs they had previously never seen. Some kills are better than no kills. However, in the long run, it might harm the number of targets for any given mid-tier guild. Without rotations, smaller guilds are forced to seek alliance and collaboration. With rotations, everyone wants to run their own raid guild, and they can thanks to uncontested spawns.

I believe that simulated patches with FTE shouts, while maintaining the variance, is clearly the superior (but not only) option. Simultaneous spawns dilutes monopoly powers. If the "patches" are announced, smaller guilds with lesser mobilization skills can still compete.

On povar we did stay on the TOV/AOW rotation far longer than we needed to. But it was mainly to gear recruits and get some Blades of Carnage, they were still great easy to get aggro.

In order to prevent rotation bloat, of which i do not think we have to worry about due to less population here, is to both give arbitrary speed of the kills, and keep the rotation a tight number with one or two open slots for smaller guilds attempts. Combined with honesty from the top end about why they need to kill the said mobs.

Example. 3 guilds on VP rotation with 1-2 open slot. In order to be on the permanent list you have to kill every dragon that spawns in VP at a certain timeframe. If you do not do this for 3 straight kills, you get dropped back into an open slot, and miss your next rotation. In this example TMO leaves, says they do not need VP anymore. Then they realize that one of their hardcore guys needs something there. They immediately get the next open spot. The guilds that keep the rotation do not lose it. The only people that lose out are the guilds that are still proving themselves.

This example is imploded with variance. But you get the overall idea.
This type of senario will also never happen. Its way too carebear for everyone involved.


That's why its going to be a mob by mob basis if anything ever happens. Like a dojo cycle, or Trak. It would give TMO the ability to show its "benevolent" side, and PR for later. It would give other guilds loot and a cool raid to look forward to. There ya go

[Silentone]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On povar we did stay on the TOV/AOW rotation far longer than we needed to. But it was mainly to gear recruits and get some Blades of Carnage, they were still great easy to get aggro.

In order to prevent rotation bloat, of which i do not think we have to worry about due to less population here, is to both give arbitrary speed of the kills, and keep the rotation a tight number with one or two open slots for smaller guilds attempts. Combined with honesty from the top end about why they need to kill the said mobs.

Example. 3 guilds on VP rotation with 1-2 open slot. In order to be on the permanent list you have to kill every dragon that spawns in VP at a certain timeframe. If you do not do this for 3 straight kills, you get dropped back into an open slot, and miss your next rotation. In this example TMO leaves, says they do not need VP anymore. Then they realize that one of their hardcore guys needs something there. They immediately get the next open spot. The guilds that keep the rotation do not lose it. The only people that lose out are the guilds that are still proving themselves.

This example is imploded with variance. But you get the overall idea.
This type of senario will also never happen. Its way too carebear for everyone involved.


That's why its going to be a mob by mob basis if anything ever happens. Like a dojo cycle, or Trak. It would give TMO the ability to show its "benevolent" side, and PR for later. It would give other guilds loot and a cool raid to look forward to. There ya go

if you had only seen our boards 1 week prior to our suspension, and now...its sad what a few spitful people are causing.