Shadows of Luclin

[Gustoo]

Can we ban everyone in this thread that wants to make the only classic server non classic? Lol dang

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you not understand what website you're on? The goal of P99 was to recreate pre-Luclin Everquest.

I'm not surprised people are bored, though, and think adding an expansion will suddenly make things better. It won't change the flawed game mechanics, the time waste, and the fact that the info is already out there and you're not doing anything new or interesting or skillful, only repeating tired old grinding. Things will only be worse, as instead of staring at carefully created pixels that were part of a well-considered world, you'll be staring at artistically defunct pixels.

This is the correct assessment.

We’re ready for a new classic server not taking the whole project off the rails

[Croco]

We're just discussing the merits of adding Luclin and you all are losing your god damn minds.

Also this project is not classic. It's not in the same universe as classic. Go look on the wiki at all the non-classic changes that have been made. This server being classic died a quick death long long ago.

[A Knight]

I've said this too many times and it feels tacky some how saying it more, but Luclin started taking away from the feel of the world. People might just have to accept that, in order for an MMORPG to be good, it has to be way nerdy and you need to walk distances through the world. I think most people want to make an MMORPG a skill contest, thus then instantly teleporting to all their fights, which I guess sometimes makes sense.

And I think the item balance was a little off, I could be wrong but I didn't make it far into the expansion. It could have been because I was a kid and I was mad that all my gear was bad now but I'm not sure. Luclin just felt like trash that I was in denial of, until one day I concluded the game was dead.

Added later:

Sorry to bash on Luclin, but ehh I think it will be ok on a p99 website. I'd like to play Luclin again one day because to put simply, I think sometimes there is a nostalgia feeling when there is none.

And also if a super hardcore version of Wow came out and it was fun, people with lives still might enjoy regular Wow because its quick and saves time. So I'm not saying no to EQ for people will lives and no time on their hands. Just a classic server and Luclin plus server.

[MaCtastic]

The more I think about it, they haven’t even released a refresh red server and there has been demand for years. The likelihood that we’ll see anything on blue related to luclin negligible. Also, combined with their statements regarding intent of server, I wouldn’t be surprised that this same logic be applied to blue.

I think most of the folks (speaking for myself) would like to see up to PoP here are based on: 1) the client and its ergonomics are far better than the other options, 2) the stance on boxing and how it keeps a healthy population and social interdependence , and 3) the amount of players and existing relationships that already exist in this community. If it were to happen in P99 land, I wouldn’t be made if it was a new server that started withy he intent to end in PoP, even if it was slightly customized to remove the big-No issues that we collectively agree are bad.

I do understand that other servers exist, but they are not the same as the experience here. There just isn’t a truebox PoP server, that has a good client, and has demonstrated they are in for the long haul.

[A Knight]

I think it would be cool, if 5,000 years from now, with flying cars in the sky, its no longer fashionable for companies to fight over rights for games so much. Then we could have two main basis, classic and Luclin plus. But through some filter of popularity different versions of expansion can come out, thus adding a different expansion after Velious, even of more than one variety.

Just some company with the rights in the future, saying "Give me your 15 dollars to play our game." not, "This is our game now, you play it our way."

[A Knight]

I'm not involved in EQ Next by the way. Sounds like a bad idea just because, once everyone gets involved in the game to that kind of level (Or at least not at first.) it takes away the mystique of new content.

Like an item at Best Buy wrapped in plastic saying. "New!" Sure eventually we can get it all online but maybe the foundation of a game should start with human flaws of marketing appeal, and that some company made it.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's literally the same argument against releasing the Green server. It's hilarious you think that all the pixels created during classic-velious are from a well-considered world. Dev's had no idea what they were doing with classic & kunark loot and only barely figured it out in velious. Luclin is the first time you see loot that was fully balanced across all classes without any garbage stats like int on monk gear and the like.

How are you trying to argue that someone not wanting Luclin would be the same as not wanting a Green server? What does stats on gear have to do with the actual game world? This paragraph is nonsense and you seem very confused.

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Luclin is the culmination of the EQ dev team firing on all cylinders and you can tell by how well crafted and iconic the vast majority of the Luclin raids are, minus vex thal which is just them throwing up their hands and adding 10x hp to all the mobs to create the illusion of difficulty. Ssra Temple is easily one of the most iconic zones in the history of EQ.

Ssra isn't iconic, 99.9% of the playerbase never did it. Almost nobody had the playtime and guild to being doing the content, and PoP came along quickly with better gear for less effort, invalidating the Luclin content to a bigger degree than had been seen in any previous expansion jump (the high tier Luclin loot was actually very underwhelming when it came out and was later buffed). Tons of people were still playing Velious content during Luclin, since the Luclin shit was gatekept and too difficult for most guilds anyway. PoP content offered options right away and was the more important raiding path, so people just skipped high-end Luclin. Also, this is when many Classic-era players were starting to quit the game anyway.

You only speak of raids though. Raids are not all that EQ is, they weren't even supposed to be the most frequently played aspect of the game, at least in the form they took on. Most of Luclin does not look good (especially with trash like the mounts) and does not feel like EQ proper. You can feel the artificiality of the zones as you go through them, the boxiness and the poorly placed and designed assets, how there is little sense of it being an actual world with real inhabitants. It was not a well-conceived concept, it was just supposed to seem cool in its "departure from Norrath", to get more people to buy it. There's plenty of stuff I don't love about Velious, but it at least had a vision and cohesion with the Dragon/Giant/Dwarf angle and being an iceland, which was a terrain type that Everquest didn't have much of yet. Doing quests in Velious, you actually feel like you're participating in a story or epic thing at times, whereas with Luclin it takes on more of the bad, modern MMO feeling of things just standing around and being there in service of the superficial fetch-quest itself.

What's iconic is taking the boat to Velious for the first time and running past the massive Tower of Frozen Shadow, seeing giants roam around, as other creatures that actually make sense inhabit the shoreline. Or running down through the massive chasm towards Kael for the first time. Or wandering around the wastes, feeling the chill in your bones, and getting a sense of the cultures that authentically exist there.

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Luclin and Pop are the pinnacle of EQ.

Planes of Power is especially garbage. Plane of Knowledge and its stupid bookstands across Norrath totally spit in the face of an actual immersive world, and the Planes are underwhelming boxes that demystify and make generic these big concepts, which are supposed to be expansive and complex and magnificent. The planes introduced in earlier eras, while definitely not full "alternate planes of existence", are at least atmospheric. Plane of Fear and Hate are truly iconic, with the way an entire raid was in jeopardy of wiping from the moment they entered, and in the very horror-esque detailing. Plane of Mischief, although seen by almost no players during the actual Classic timeline, is wonderfully zany and definitely feels exactly like an ironic Van Gogh-eqsue madhouse that spawned from this God's imagination. Plane of Growth is more generic but at least it's very big and green, giving the sense of an aspect of Tunare's realm, and while the content in Plane of Sky never quite made sense, the islands-in-the-air design (and danger of falling off!) did feel on the outset like a proper high fantasy place.

What's further underwhelming about Planes of Power is the unmemorable way in which they are entered, starting with just clicking in from some random stupid stone in a tiny zone that people of all levels are bunched up running around in. It's SO artificial and unsatisfying. That expansion being so linearly raid-focused is despicable too, it's empty spoon-fed gameplay, no real adventure, just this pre-set script sitting there for people to go through the motions, so that they can keep on the gear treadmill and feel like they are advancing. A rat race.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...and while the content in Plane of Sky never quite made sense, the islands-in-the-air design (and danger of falling off!) did feel on the outset like a proper high fantasy place.

This is one of several zones that I think we can chalk up to the technology available not quite being able to pull off what the artists wanted to do.

Originally Posted by putrid_plum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i like how people say most hate luclin and dont want it then there is a forum post where 95% of the people want luclin... irony?

When P1999 was in its own beta, there were no shortage of folks on the old forum insisting, vehemently at times, that "everyone" wanted a PvP server or unrestricted multi-boxing or other such rotten things. Folks who aren't getting what they want have more reason to post than folks who're already where they want to be.

Danth

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How are you trying to argue that someone not wanting Luclin would be the same as not wanting a Green server? What does stats on gear have to do with the actual game world? This paragraph is nonsense and you seem very confused.

Because That's exactly what happened to blue when green released. People were bored on blue so they went to green either for some misguided attempt to experience EQ fresh, which is impossible, or because they want to get those legacy items they missed out on because they didn't start on blue day one. Especially the part where you say the following "It won't change the flawed game mechanics, the time waste, and the fact that the info is already out there and you're not doing anything new or interesting or skillful, only repeating tired old grinding." That is literally the green server in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ssra isn't iconic, 99.9% of the playerbase never did it. Almost nobody had the playtime and guild to being doing the content, and PoP came along quickly with better gear for less effort, invalidating the Luclin content to a bigger degree than had been seen in any previous expansion jump (the high tier Luclin loot was actually very underwhelming when it came out and was later buffed). Tons of people were still playing Velious content during Luclin, since the Luclin shit was gatekept and too difficult for most guilds anyway. PoP content offered options right away and was the more important raiding path, so people just skipped high-end Luclin. Also, this is when many Classic-era players were starting to quit the game anyway.

Ssra isn't iconic ok sure whatever you say. I have my opinion and you have yours. It was an exp zone as well as a raid zone and I guarantee you more than .1% of the player base got to experience Ssra Temple in one form or another. Pop might've been less effort than keying for VT, my guild on live skipped VT for this reason, but Ssra is an open zone with no flags and minimal keys, it had great gear for the effort because it took almost no effort to do Ssra raids and the gear was 100% relevant after PoP launched because some of the best weapons in the game that you wouldn't upgrade until PoTime dropped in Ssra.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You only speak of raids though. Raids are not all that EQ is, they weren't even supposed to be the most frequently played aspect of the game, at least in the form they took on. Most of Luclin does not look good (especially with trash like the mounts) and does not feel like EQ proper. You can feel the artificiality of the zones as you go through them, the boxiness and the poorly placed and designed assets, how there is little sense of it being an actual world with real inhabitants. It was not a well-conceived concept, it was just supposed to seem cool in its "departure from Norrath", to get more people to buy it. There's plenty of stuff I don't love about Velious, but it at least had a vision and cohesion with the Dragon/Giant/Dwarf angle and being an iceland, which was a terrain type that Everquest didn't have much of yet. Doing quests in Velious, you actually feel like you're participating in a story or epic thing at times, whereas with Luclin it takes on more of the bad, modern MMO feeling of things just standing around and being there in service of the superficial fetch-quest itself.

Obviously raiding isn't everything, there are great exp zones in Luclin that have nothing to do with raiding. I won't disagree with you that Velious had a better storyline than Luclin, it hit you over the head with it, you had a great dwarf city and they wanted to you to kill the giants, and along the way you found out the dragons also liked you killing giants so you quickly realized ok I'm on team dwarf/giant. I'm sure Luclin has some great lore but it doesn't stick it in your face as much as Velious did. It's just two different approaches, obviously you like one better than the other and that's fine. Some people aren't lore fiends and don't really care what the story is with the Scarlet Desert or why there's a giant wizard spire in Mons Letalis with a ton of shadowy figures guarding it.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's iconic is taking the boat to Velious for the first time

You misspelled "boring af"

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and running past the massive Tower of Frozen Shadow, seeing giants roam around, as other creatures that actually make sense inhabit the shoreline. Or running down through the massive chasm towards Kael for the first time. Or wandering around the wastes, feeling the chill in your bones, and getting a sense of the cultures that authentically exist there.

Yes I agree that is iconic. More than one thing can be iconic. Ask 100 people who enjoyed Luclin to name an iconic zone and I bet 90 of them say Ssra Temple, it IS iconic.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Planes of Power is especially garbage. Plane of Knowledge and its stupid bookstands across Norrath totally spit in the face of an actual immersive world, and the Planes are underwhelming boxes that demystify and make generic these big concepts, which are supposed to be expansive and complex and magnificent. The planes introduced in earlier eras, while definitely not full "alternate planes of existence", are at least atmospheric. Plane of Fear and Hate are truly iconic, with the way an entire raid was in jeopardy of wiping from the moment they entered, and in the very horror-esque detailing. Plane of Mischief, although seen by almost no players during the actual Classic timeline, is wonderfully zany and definitely feels exactly like an ironic Van Gogh-eqsue madhouse that spawned from this God's imagination. Plane of Growth is more generic but at least it's very big and green, giving the sense of an aspect of Tunare's realm, and while the content in Plane of Sky never quite made sense, the islands-in-the-air design (and danger of falling off!) did feel on the outset like a proper high fantasy place.

PoP is the single best expansion EQ has ever had. Full stop. It's a culmination of the journey you start when you first create your character and you're asked which diety you want to follow/worship and maybe you do quests for your diety that give specific loot only those followers can use but eventually you gain power, grow bolder, and decide actually I want to challenge these so called gods and take their fat loots. It's the classic "rage against the heavens" trope. Not all of the various planes introduced in PoP are as iconic as the originals we get early in EQ and that's fine. Not every Plane needs to look or function the same but the fact that we get to go into their home planes and slay actual gods was and is incredibly iconic and a LOT of fun. These aren't random dragons like Nagafen or Vox, this is THE LORD MITHANIEL MARR, and I just killed him! EQ subscriber count peaked at the end of 2004 and started declining there after, mostly because of WoW. Whether you like it or not Luclin and PoP were incredibly popular with the playerbase.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's further underwhelming about Planes of Power is the unmemorable way in which they are entered, starting with just clicking in from some random stupid stone in a tiny zone that people of all levels are bunched up running around in. It's SO artificial and unsatisfying. That expansion being so linearly raid-focused is despicable too, it's empty spoon-fed gameplay, no real adventure, just this pre-set script sitting there for people to go through the motions, so that they can keep on the gear treadmill and feel like they are advancing. A rat race.

Welcome to all MMO's you must be new around here.

We all get it, you don't like Luclin or PoP, but you are in the minority. The vast majority of EQ players loved those expansions as evidenced by how wildly popular EQ was at that time and how subscriptions continued to go up and didn't start declining until WoW dethroned EQ as the number one MMO. Your opinion is valid, I'm sorry you didn't like Luclin and PoP, but it's just your opinion just as these are our opinions.

It just happens to be that more people agree with us than agree with you.