Buff Lines Page Done

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you have an error in your buff lines: major shielding from the Stave of Shielding does not seem to stack with FoS. It also will not stack with Yaulp IV.

If memory serves FOS indeed does NOT stack w/ the Mage "Shielding" line of spells, but I'm fairly certain it should have no problem stacking w/ the Yaulp line....

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haste is not, but HP regen definitely is.

Cool; this was actually correct in the page, I was just confused.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't referring to the instrument bonus though, I meant that hymn of restoration stacks with niv's to grant >50hp / tick regen via just bardsong. (Realistically, at 60 you would be using cantana of replenishment but it has 1 less base hp regen at 60 compared to hymn).

Awesome; Lucy 100% agrees that they stack, so this was just a goof on my part (which I've fixed)

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The hp/mana regen songs are a bit complicated. The HP is effected by instrument but the mana regen is not. However, the pure mana songs that are singing based are supposed to be increase via epic / puretone, but IIRC its not working right in p99 or something. Its a debated topic.

I will leave this between the Bard community and the devs, but I'll happily update the page if I see a patch note about it.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(Also, for mana regen, you have the 34 bard song listed instead of the 55 one which has double the mana regen. For max mana regen, bards would sing 1 mana regen + 2 or 3 mana pulse for max. If you want to look at pure 1 tick counts, one cantana + 1 chorus will give +20 mana regen without any instrument bonus. It gets more complicated a calculation as you add in 2 or 3 pulses of chorus and epic/disc modifier.)

I'm not sure how but I somehow completely missed Cantata of Replenishment. Fixed.

Incidentally the song was misspelled on the Bard page as "Cantana of Replenishment", so I fixed it; there's my contribution to the Bard community [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The haste section is also bit off. Jonathan's whistling warsong is not V2 haste (like ervaj songs) and will not stack with enchanter haste (its V1).

Lucy actually disagrees with you on this; according to it Jonathan's Whistling Warsong stacks with every other haste except the ones that give AC (eg. Augmentation). So, there's three possibilities: A) SoE changed the stacking on live after the classic era, B) SoE didn't change anything and the devs got the stacking wrong here, or C) you're mistaken.

I really doubt it's C), but just to be safe (before I file a bug and potentially waste dev time) can you please confirm that you've tested that Jonathan's Whistling Warsong and a non-AC granting haste (eg. Celerity or Visions of Grandeur) don't stack?

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The DS is also a bit off. You list +22 in the bottom section but the table above uses +8 value for McVaxius' Rousing Rondo.

Fixed

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ATK section also needs bard epic (+30atk)

Fixed (and added to the Haste and Strength sections too). This really helped up all the maximums, since the bard epic stacks with everything.

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Similarly, STR benefits from bard epic and song of the deep seas proc (which is also AC and AGI).

Added Song of the Deep Seas to AC, Str, Agi and Haste. However, I ran into another disagreement between P99 and Lucy; according to Lucy the haste (well, and the other stats) of Song of the Deep Seas stacks with everything except a couple of buffs that don't exist yet (and three different types of rez sickness).

So again, either P99 or Lucy is probably wrong, not you, but just to be safe can you please confirm that you proc-ed Song of the Deep Seas, then had someone try to cast a haste spell on you, and it didn't stack?

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It might sound like I'm criticizing the page but I'm not. It must have taken a lot of effort to set the page up and I'm just nitpicking a few things on it that are probably outside your area of expertise. I audit SOP's IRL so its just something I do to look at these types of things. I'm still too lazy to edit it myself lol.

Thank you! I am not a bard player (I love the class but my wrists just can't take that kind of punishment), so I'm definitely outside my area of expertise on them. This makes me immensely appreciative of of your feedback. I take it as: it's 100% helpful suggestions, 0% criticism.

[Muggens]

Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If memory serves FOS indeed does NOT stack w/ the Mage "Shielding" line of spells, but I'm fairly certain it should have no problem stacking w/ the Yaulp line....

Correct, shielding does not stack with FoS

[Trzzle]

Warsong is not V2. Even your Lucy link says that. The buff stacks in that you receive the AC and STR, the hastes do not stack.

Erjav: Increase Haste v2 by 10%
vs
Warsong: Increase Attack Speed by 15% (L7) to 40% (L41)

Good list there's just a bunch of stacking errors it looks like. Strength of Nature (ATK) is missing, it overwrites Grim Aura line buffs.

[Legidias]

Unlike other class buffs, even if part or all of a bard song doesn't stack with another buff, it will still land (won't stack with other bard songs though). That's why it can get confusing.

I have not proc'd song of the deep seas myself, but have had it proc'd on me. I honestly can't say for certain aboiut testing it in game, but I doubt a 60% haste would stack with all other hastes.

Similarly with warsong, even the lvl 60 song which requires instrument to play only increases V2 haste by 10%, whereas the listed amount for warsong is like 25%.

Warsong and deep seas buffs are mainly beneficial in the stat boost rather than the haste.

I feel like 99% of the p99 population (bard or otherwise) would probably agree those hastes don't stack.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unlike other class buffs, even if part or all of a bard song doesn't stack with another buff, it will still land (won't stack with other bard songs though). That's why it can get confusing.

Every other buff on the page (and in EQ in general) is nice and simple: if it's listed on another buff's Lucy's stacking page, then it doesn't stack with that buff ... and otherwise it does. But no, you bards have to make things difficult [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry about the confusion, but I think I get it now, and I'll get the bard haste section cleaned up.

Originally Posted by Trzzle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Strength of Nature (ATK) is missing, it overwrites Grim Aura line buffs.

I'll add Strength of Nature later too (would do it now but I have guests inc).

Thank you both for taking the time to help me understand your strange Bardic world [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Heebs13]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Great catch on the Focus/Shielding stacking, thank you! I've fixed that in the page.

The Yaulp IV thing is ... interesting. Lucy agrees with you 100% about FoS and Stave not stacking, but not about Yaulp IV (if you follow the link you'll see that no versions of Yaulp are listed, and similarly Major Shielding isn't listed on the Yaulp IV page).

It's possible Yaulp IV didn't stack in classic, and SoE later changed it to stack, but that seems unlikely. So if the two don't stack here but they do on Lucy, there's a decent chance it's a mistake. I'll file a bug on it: if the devs have classic evidence to the contrary I'll fix the page to indicate that Yaulp IV doesn't stack, but maybe this will turn out to be a classic fix.

But before I file a bug I just want to double-check: are you 100% certain Yaulp IV and Major Shielding don't stack (don't want to waste dev time)?

I am absolutely certain that Yaulp IV and Major Shielding do not stack.

[Sun Feb 03 09:08:56 2019] You begin casting Yaulp IV.
[Sun Feb 03 09:08:56 2019] Your spell did not take hold.
[Sun Feb 03 09:09:26 2019] Your shielding fades.
[Sun Feb 03 09:09:27 2019] You begin casting Yaulp IV.
[Sun Feb 03 09:09:28 2019] You feel a surge of strength as you let forth a mighty yaulp.

[Wonkie]

coldain ring 8 and 9 buff shield of the eighth

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does a single bard song really grant +196 MR with puretone and max instrument modifier? Surprised the isn't a cap on some things.

There is a cap on overall MR, which most raid geared players can achieve with flowers and potions. Bards are actually really weak here in comparison to TAKP, where a puretone bard sends you to 500 and makes you immune to most AEs in Kunark.

[applesauce25r624]

missing bard song Cassindra's Elegy