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  #31  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:12 PM
Skope Skope is offline
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Originally Posted by Versus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'd just like to say that removing variance would create a massive clusterfuck and headache. You'd have 3-4 guilds with timers on almost everything and they'd be training and petitioning their way around the game every week. Shit would be mayhem and GM's would kill themselves.
yes it would, and so what? It worked itself out on live, it'll work itself out here. Forcing made-up rules and completely changing the way the raiding scene works is far worse. It's destroying competition. In fact, i'll do you TMO guys a favor. Want to do as well as TR/Ascension? Start mass recruiting. That way you can get by the variance/window problem and you'll always have enough to down a target, because that's the solution they employ and has been employed since variance was introduced. On live these were the guilds that first fell apart, whereas here they just merge and restructure, rinse/repeat.

Furthermore, guilds have been training for ages now and it won't suddenly begin or stop with a new rule set. /petition and submit screenshot then wait.

The easiest thing for the GMs to do is wipe their hands clean and say "go for it." Whatever happens happens. Much like before, if you want to make your own rules that we will enforce then we'll all abide by it. You can still restrict training and have 4-5 guilds going after a target.
Last edited by Skope; 05-31-2011 at 02:15 PM..
  #32  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:21 PM
Dravingar Dravingar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
yes it would, and so what? It worked itself out on live, it'll work itself out here. Forcing made-up rules and completely changing the way the raiding scene works is far worse. It's destroying competition. In fact, i'll do you TMO guys a favor. Want to do as well as TR/Ascension? Start mass recruiting. That way you can get by the variance/window problem and you'll always have enough to down a target, because that's the solution they employ and has been employed since variance was introduced. On live these were the guilds that first fell apart, whereas here they just merge and restructure, rinse/repeat.

Furthermore, guilds have been training for ages now and it won't suddenly begin or stop with a new rule set. /petition and submit screenshot then wait.

The easiest thing for the GMs to do is wipe their hands clean and say "go for it." Whatever happens happens. Much like before, if you want to make your own rules that we will enforce then we'll all abide by it. You can still restrict training and have 4-5 guilds going after a target.
You mad.
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  #33  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:21 PM
Bruman Bruman is offline
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The variance needs to go.
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Leapfrogging is a dick move. It's not about "rules" or "ZOMG IT HAPPENED ON MY SERVER ITS FAIR".
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  #34  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:29 PM
Skope Skope is offline
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Originally Posted by Dravingar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You mad.
no, I classic.

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Aadill, i'm not implying rotation. Training, KSing, FFA, FTE, rotation were ALL classic. Variance was NOT. Any sort of variance is retarded. Do you remember how it was like to raid during velious? get there an hour before it spawns, start clearing. Tracking was used only to find the ToDs and consequently the spawn times. If you got lazy then you'd wait for a patch day. Variance as a rule shouldn't even be an option.

Even if you despise the idea of rotation, it still bears a ton more merit than variance. TBH, i'd be happier with an FTE/KSing scenario than any sort of rotation.
Last edited by Skope; 05-31-2011 at 02:41 PM..
  #35  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:51 PM
Aadill Aadill is offline
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The problem is that getting there an hour before it spawns means other guilds will get there 2 hours before it spawns. What was the rule for ToV? Kill Aary and the rest is yours? Whose ready to engage and petition the GMs for FTE? Is it KS or train and no bad blood comes from one guild merrily going on their way through the rest of the loot pinatas or is each dragon FTE? or even varianced... boy that would be a shitter.

Rotation with no variance or hard work with variance? hell if I know which is better. I take the GMs idea as a bittersweet resolution - you get there and engage the mob by being fast, sneaky, or ballsy. It takes more effort from tracking but also from organization and cohesiveness. The GMs don't have to get involved on every kill unless there is a problem. As of recently there hasn't been a problem because one guild wipes on the pull and the other gets it, one tracker mistweets and the call to kill never goes out, or better yet the mob is already did before another guild even gets there.

Sure that may not be classic but it's less painful for the people in charge. When someone gets legitimately trained and the excrement hits the oscillator then a GM is called. If EVERYONE knows when stuff is going to spawn how will it be expected to be less involved for the staff?

This is mere speculation, mind you. I can't claim one is better over the other but I don't feel that your argument is convincing enough. Noble Dojorn was one of the most contested spawns because his timer was known down to the second. Sir Lucan was fairly contested and caused heated arguments between guilds. Phinny was never a big issue because very few people were willing to put the effort into killing him in a way that he was killable so the mob was dead by time a large gang of people came in to tank and spank him. Things DID become KS/trainfests and the GMs got pissed off. Those are just small targets compared to the Kunark and eventually Velious stuff.
Last edited by Aadill; 05-31-2011 at 02:57 PM..
  #36  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:55 PM
JenJen JenJen is offline
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how can people have the energy to go through all this again? if you want a boss, quit your guild and join the guild that kills them most regularly. its only a game.
  #37  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:57 PM
Aadill Aadill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenJen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
how can people have the energy to go through all this again? if you want a boss, quit your guild and join the guild that kills them most regularly. its only a game.
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  #38  
Old 05-31-2011, 02:57 PM
Troy Troy is offline
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The same way they have the energy to be in game or ready to be in game at a moment's notice 24/7 for months/years. Meth maybe? I don't know.
  #39  
Old 05-31-2011, 03:02 PM
Skope Skope is offline
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You're missing one question...

Why should the staff bother? Right now, they don't want a headache. I think both you and i, and any person who's been here raiding for longer 2-3 months knows that variance was put in to keep GM involvement low. They're busy with other shit and don't need to hear our crap. The problem is that it doesn't in any way resemble EQ live raiding. People didn't need to track mobs, they tracked guilds. Here comes FoH to Seb -- guess who died?

If they take their hands off of us and let us play like the big boys we are then it'll settle itself. That's how it happened on every single live server. Forcing the raiding playerbase to behave by limiting who can grab targets and when by creating something that was never classic just so they can maintain a certain level of stability at the cost of shitting on the classic EQ raiding experience is unfair.

There was a reason the majority of the more successful guilds were college students and older people and not 14 year olds who had the most time on their hands. Right now, with the current rules + variance it boils down to: do you have endless hours to waste and/or are you willing to mass recruit? We've both been around long enough to know that's been the case for years now. I was hoping they'd wake up and realize that it has to change soon and kunark would do that, but they haven't and it's still the same ol' shit.
  #40  
Old 05-31-2011, 03:03 PM
JenJen JenJen is offline
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are post counts valuable or something? can i sell mine? whats the going price? whoop-e-doo.
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