Clarification: Representative Limit

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by Jesseca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For example: Draco is Class R and Azure Guard is up for this mob. It is ok for us to be clearing fear when he spawns and then take him down? Same with Hate on Inny and Maestro?

No. Server rules > player made agreements.

Class R qualified entities outside the player agreement can and will dispute a planar clear leading to a boss kill on a class R mob.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Jesseca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For example: Draco is Class R and Azure Guard is up for this mob. It is ok for us to be clearing fear when he spawns and then take him down? Same with Hate on Inny and Maestro?

so heres the slippery slope. firstly its important to note that technically Class R's rotation is a player created/enforced policy.

so if Draco was Class R and it was AGs turn to kill Draco (as per the aforementioned player created/enforced rotation), and AG was clearing trash in PoF ahead of time, i would be fine with that. the reason being since it's AGs turn, they arent gaining an advantage simply because there's no one else competing for the target.

However with that said, i can foresee where problems could arise if there were Class R guilds that either disagreed with (or broke away from) that rotation, since at that point if AG was clearing the trash and draco spawned, it would be the exact same thing as a Class C guild trying to do juggs/tola so that they could have an advantage taking down trakanon, and that would most certainly qualify as a violation of the p99 Raid Policy.

[Striiker]

The window is only 16 hours long. If you are up in the Class R rotation for a mob or want a shot at a FFA mob, just stay out of that zone for the 16 hours. It avoids any potential for problems, rule lawyering and GM involvement. Do what you need to have your guild ready for the call and mobilize when the target pops. Keep it simple and stay out of zones which contain the mobs you want for that short period of time. The rest of the time, raid to your heart's content!

[phiren]

So -- I'm totally with you on the "Window Avoidance". There is absolutely no justification for HAVING to do Juggs / Fear / Hate during a window of a mob you want to kill. That is blatantly poopsocking.

However, my concern is during Simulated Patch Respawns.

What if Taken is clearing Hate on a Monday afternoon... Maestro + Inny are both FFA and not in window for 3 days. CLEARLY you are not poopsocking.

Insert Simulated Patch Respawn (Not known to ANYONE in advance except maybe the GMs)

Why are you guys now banned from Inny / Maestro? Surely you should be allowed to at least port out / port in and be good.

Or maybe the 'rule' should be that you can't engage for 30 minutes? 1 hour?

I would say you should be allowed to kill Inny / Maestro... but only under one of the following conditions:
A) Port out / port back in
B) Wait 30 minutes
C) Wait 1 hour

~Phiren

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by phiren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So -- I'm totally with you on the "Window Avoidance". There is absolutely no justification for HAVING to do Juggs / Fear / Hate during a window of a mob you want to kill. That is blatantly poopsocking.

However, my concern is during Simulated Patch Respawns.

This is basically my position as well.

[Striiker]

In my opinion, I would consider it to be within the spirit of the anti-poopsock rules and competition to be allowed to engage the target provided you port out and back into the zone (in Hate for example). Yes, since you have a raid force already on line you have a slight advantage over others but that's hardly against the spirit or intent of the rules.
Really, the idea is to have essentially even starting ground for the targets which is generally held as being at least one zone away. (at the zone line into the zone or 1 port away (into Hate or Sky Fire for example)). If members of a guild are in the zone with a FFA target during a simulated re-pop, they should exit the zone and then re-enter (i.e. players in KC and a simulated re-pop fires off with a FFA VS up next.. They should haul ass to the zone line, exit and head back in.)
This I think would be acceptable.. The staff doesn't want to punish players and guilds for playing the game normally and so I don't think that this approach would be problematic.

[phiren]

When I specifically asked a GM about this situation in-game, they hinted that we would be suspended if we killed the mob. He didn't sound 110% sure that was the case though... which is why I'm asking here. I would like EVERYONE to know the 100% guaranteed official rule [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So until Rogean / Sirken / crew comes out and specifically says this is ok... if you are in Hate / Fear / Seb / KC when there is a simulated patch spawn... you will be banned for killing the mob.



~Phiren

[Artaenc]

How about if we were killing fire giants/tranix/exp/Efreeti/zordak with characters lvl 53-60 and simulated patch respawn occurs? If we had our lvl 52 and below outside of sol B would we forfeit from killing naggy if it's FFA? I know that the high levels can buff the low levels so it wouldn't be right to use those higher lvl characters at that point.

[bktroost]

Well that really brings up a whole other issue. If another guild sends bards to be part of our dragon groups for the Resist songs but never engage the dragon themselves will that guild get the the tag for killing the mob. I personally don't see why GMs would want to participate in guilds working together so long as it doesn't involve actual dpsing/tank/healing. Just makes the server get along better =-)

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Artaenc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about if we were killing fire giants/tranix/exp/Efreeti/zordak with characters lvl 53-60 and simulated patch respawn occurs? If we had our lvl 52 and below outside of sol B would we forfeit from killing naggy if it's FFA? I know that the high levels can buff the low levels so it wouldn't be right to use those higher lvl characters at that point.

currently this is the murkiest part of new raid rules: in a raid target zone and an earthquake occurs.

Most have said .. if ur interested in the mob that spawns in the zone ur in, u must exit and re-enter it. The earthquake gives u 2 min to do so.

I cant comment much further in that respect as I think most guilds are still figuring out what is deemed "fair play/play nice" when earthquakes happen and ur alrdy raiding/in raid zone


hope that helps