your hopes for red99 2.0

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by pink grapefruit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PvP is a much better way of handling the problem of limited resources, but that's not the only reason we love it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is it that bluebies have nostalgic memories of being one-shotted by Cazel, but then go on to say things like "my time is valuable; losing a fight and having to run back to my corpse is the exact OPPOSITE of fun"? Makes zero sense [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cazel is predictable, doesnt grief me intentionally, doesnt sit at the zone waiting to backstab me, cant call in backup, and cant FD at my dungeon camp.

currently green has 2k+, blue is at 550ish, and red is at 23. Less than 1% of players logged on to p99 preferred the red server. The market has spoken.

[walfreyydo]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fully acceptaball. Good timez for all.

I just get surprised when people act like item loot makes naked casters such a big problem. Like...errr derr every noob level 1 to whatever has nothing to lose from item loot. Only twinks.

Basically if there is a PVP level range limit like +-4 rallos style, than it should be item loot.

If not item loot, it should be unlimited PVP level range because level 60's being able to kill level 1's means that those level 60's have no reason to make a twink PK, and then other level 60's can battle them after they slay noobs.

Optimal is pvp level range and item loot so that there can be "real" ish pvp at all levels instead of just level 60.

I was on Tallon Zek when it was item loot and it sucked.

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by walfreyydo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was on Tallon Zek when it was item loot and it sucked.

Tallon Zek sucked for a number of reasons I apologize for your negative experience. There are only two ways to solve twink PK problem.

1. Item loot. It makes pvp at low levels fun and twinks are bosses and people can make plans to figure out how to kill these guys and get their stuff. Those noobs losing cloth are essentially losing nothing except the time to get their corpse, which they would lose with or without item loot. Especially in a well developed server where gear is handed out freely. Higher level people losing stuff is cool too. The economy is better as items change hands thru normal people stealing stuff, droppable items way cheaper. Less RMT activity.

2. No PVP level range. It makes it pointless to make a twink. Lowbie rely on their teams high levels to defend them against psychopaths. Since all level 60's can battle all level ranges of enemy team, it also works okay.

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by Expediency [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Less than 1% of players logged on to p99 preferred the red server. The market has spoken.

The market prefers fresh servers versus servers experiencing deep server rot.

Note the mass exodus from blue to green when green opened.

Red has experienced deep server rot in several phases beginning before launch when the server fired up before making ANY changes to broken mechanics that were begged to be fixed during BETA. Launch was further screwed due to GM corruption that has thankfully been resolved (Bristlebane bless our lovely staff) god aweful custom resists, banning half of the active players in the server in two separate occasions at least one of them resulting from GM corruption, and God aweful custom unclassic PVP ruleset.

MOST IMPORTANTLY red players are smart enough to know when to throw in the towel and walk away from a pile of steaming rubble. The entire community has been begging for a server wipe or reset since BEFORE VELIOUS LAUNCHED to help mitigate these issues and give Red a fresh start.

Blue was Green Beta and is done for
Red was Pink Beta and is done for

The extremely low active number of players on Red only speaks to the intelligence and normalcy of the community as a whole. We literally pray for the people currently active on red on a daily basis.

[Snagglepuss]

When people say red was 'toxic' during 2011-2013 or whenever, what do they mean? I don't have any experience there besides one night when they shut down the blue server. I've read some of the pvp threads and find them funny, but I don't get what is so bad about the server culture.

Was it people griefing noobs or training?

[Diogene]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The most important consideration when designing a new PvP ruleset is creating something that will appeal to Blue players. Because the PvP fans are going to play regardless. So you want a ruleset that will intrigue longtime/lapsed Blue players and make them think, "Hmmm...I'm not really a PvP guy, but that sounds like it could be pretty fun and really freshen up the EQ experience." If you can get just a few hundred people like that to give it a try you've got a very good chance to create a thriving server. And let's face it, there isn't a huge untapped market of potential P1999 PvP players just sitting on the sidelines. If you want more players on a PvP server the reality is most of them will primarily be Blue players. Also, as anyone who played PvP back in the day can tell you, the majority of players on the old Zek servers were not elite PvPers who ran around looking for fights constantly. The server benefits from having more PvE focused players as well. EQ shouldn't be played like a deathmatch. PvP in EQ is the spice that enhances the dish, it isn't the main dish itself. It's still primarily a PvE game, and PvE-focused players should feel like they have a reason to be on the server as well.

This is why you needs Teams (built-in allies provides a safety net). This is why item loot is a no-go (scares away Blue players off the bat). This is why you need to offer something fresh that hasn't been done on previous PvP servers (a new ruleset).

As a long time blue player, what refrained me to play red has always been the lack of a cool ruleset. Teams would definitely be an appealing and refreshing experience. This thread is actually very interesting. Keep the ideas coming.

[Nomy]

I'd drop green any day if team pvp was in. Especially if some sort of looting was implemented, like random piece equipped on character. 😀

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by Snagglepuss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When people say red was 'toxic' during 2011-2013 or whenever, what do they mean? I don't have any experience there besides one night when they shut down the blue server. I've read some of the pvp threads and find them funny, but I don't get what is so bad about the server culture.

Was it people griefing noobs or training?

Its really the same toxic pixel lust you see on blue, but has the added stress of people being able to kill eachother in game.

Generally it was the griefing that was referred to as toxic. People seemingly taking pride in killing helpless victims over and over again.

Originally, PVP deaths resulted in full EXP loss. I am guessing this was really implemented to keep people from suiciding to avoid exp death. However, this rule combined with the lack of item loot meant there were severe penalties for weaker or less equipped players to engage in PVP combat, and literally zero benefit at all.

Additionally, there was a global OOC channel, with server announced "yellow text" from a pvp death. This global OOC channel gave psychopaths an opportunity to speak to an audience and deepened the toxicity for these guys. The yellow text further de-incentivized actual PVP activity, and a player made leaderboard with kill / death ratio tracking made this even worse.

As you know, many classes in the game are not going to be getting any kills at all, so those players look like garbage on a board focused on K / D ratio which is the only thing that can be documented based on the yellow text announcements.

Basically, every single custom aspect of the server contributed to the "toxic"

That is why, as fun as a custom ruleset server sounds, a classic full rallos zek server is the one I feel would be must successful and is most in line with the successful track record of the blue project. Item loot also means there is some reason for low level players to try to kill twinks. The noob player has no gear to lose (so only loses his time), but has some gear to gain, even if it is a small chance. Without item loot he has the risk of losing time, and no chance of any gain from fighting these types.

The only alternate ruleset that is viable is a teams based unrestricted pvp (1-60 can kill eachother) because it completely eradicates the concept of a twink PK. This is the only ruleset that makes any sense without item loot. It is a sad compromise because the low level PVP experience is one of the best parts about EQ pvp to me. Choosing a level and creating strategies around your class abilities at that level and the class abilities of your potential opponents 4 levels above and 4 levels below you. Its basically a completely different game which to me is a lot of fun. It allows people to enjoy the game without feeling the absolute need to get to level 50 or 60. A guy can be a tunnel rat and have a level 16 character and do battle.

The full open sullon zek 1-60 pvp ruleset just fully throws level 1-59 in the dumpster and creates a world that is optimized for level 60 play. No OOR healing, and your team mates at high level can assist their team lowbies at all levels instead of being forced to watch them be killed in unrest by an ogre SK with a fungi.

I think most people see the current red server as being "basically" rallos zek style, but since it is missing the core element of that server, its really just a bad custom server. Its like saying a server is "mostly" classic but has POK and books, and the bazaar.

But because the current ruleset settled to +- 4 pvp range (it used to be variable based on level range, which also was a dumb custom compromise that was designed in a silo) I think the next server is going to be a Nilbog custom 2 teams sullon zek ruleset, which I would enjoy, though a lot less than rallos zek real red99.



I for one would be happy with a server that doesn't have ANY legacy item bullshit in it. I do not enjoy the race to get a guise, the race to get a manastone, the race to get lockets of escape. Having a character bound at the pots. These things should be in the server or they should be removed. I don't enjoy a false sense of scarcity. If I can have a tool to get mana faster on my druid or wizard I would rather it be something that can be earned forever than this kind of weird pixel lust item.

I especially hate bind items that totally change PVE strategy. Its just not fun to me feeling like I need to protect this never-gunna-get-more item. F that stuff.

Let it not exist or be a pain in the ass for a player to craft. Like foraged items from 25 zones kind of pain.

I also don't think the sleeper should be wakeable on a server stuck in velious era since its only effect is to fuck your fellow players and limit the pixels they can get.

That all said, a full classic rallos rules replica would be my choice.

Back to the toxic question, it isnt any more toxic than blue. Just a little more intense, and since the community got smaller and smaller you start dealing with really psychotic guys on a regular basis on their 100th alt. The grief in PVP is more humane to me than the disgusting displays of pixel denial I see from people on green server trying to prevent Teal from opening because of a fear of too many manastones existing.

[silo32]

Originally Posted by Endorra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My main hope is that it never happens.

same

[silo32]

I also don't think the sleeper should be wakeable on a server stuck in velious era since its only effect is to fuck your fellow players and limit the pixels they can get.

this is what killed red, the big zerg guild killed the sleeper because they were burned out on pixel lust and ruined it for the rest then left

red would be 200+ if the sleeper wasn't killed