Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's all relative man. U can check the aftermarket sales websites to see just how cash-valuable coin is on Green/Teal.

If you really think nobody is RMTing on Green/Teal then you're even more delusional that I'd already suspected!

First, you didn't say coin, you said items. Second, any cash camps in the classic era can be effectively soloed by other classes such as Necros. So, if you have this altruistic concern that Enchanter Charm is promoting RMT, then I guess we should probably start looking into what we'd have to nerf for multiple other classes to keep them from easily soloing anything otherwise they will just replace the Enchanters in the RMT scheme. Right?

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, you didn't say coin, you said items. Second, any cash camps in the classic era can be effectively soloed by other classes such as Necros. So, if you have this altruistic concern that Enchanter Charm is promoting RMT, then I guess we should probably start looking into what we'd have to nerf for multiple other classes to keep them from easily soloing anything otherwise they will just replace the Enchanters in the RMT scheme. Right?

People generally RMT coin not items. They farm high value items to acquire said coin for sell.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, you didn't say coin, you said items. Second, any cash camps in the classic era can be effectively soloed by other classes such as Necros. So, if you have this altruistic concern that Enchanter Charm is promoting RMT, then I guess we should probably start looking into what we'd have to nerf for multiple other classes to keep them from easily soloing anything otherwise they will just replace the Enchanters in the RMT scheme. Right?

You spent this entire thread rallying AGAINST nerfing Enchanters but you're perfectly fine with other classes getting nerfed.

Almost as if you have a class bias.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People generally RMT coin not items. They farm high value items to acquire said coin for sell.

I agree. So what items in the classic era are of such high value that they would be worth an RMTers time and are not already subject to the list mechanic?

Also, if RMT issues are your argument, then what nerfs would you propose to other solo-capable classes to ensure they don't fill the RMT void left by all these supposedly RMTing Enchanters? The 3 primary classes I think you should address are Necromancers, Shamans, and Magicians, but feel free to propose nerfs to others as well.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Vizax_Xaziv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You spent this entire thread rallying AGAINST nerfing Enchanters but you're perfectly fine with other classes getting nerfed.

Almost as if you have a class bias.

I'm not for it at all. But in order to resolve your RMT concern it's what you'd have to do. Right? Or could your RMT argument just be arbitrary BS that you're making because you don't have much of an actual argument about Enchanter mechanics.

If you're serious about the RMT argument, then please explain what you'd propose to nerf for other classes so they can't fill the void following an Enchanter nerf.

[vossiewulf]

I still have no intention of playing an Enchanter, so still in the end I have no skin in the game whichever way it goes, but it made me curious as to whether I'm remembering accurately.

Earliest snapshot I could find of EQ Caster's Realm was November 7 1999, and yeah that's what I remember, enchanters being excited to charm mobs 6 levels below theirs for four minutes. I poked around a bit, first mentions I see of consistently using charmed mobs as a replacement pet of DB stature start around the time of Kunark. Not sure if it was items or spell changes that pushed out the duration, but something must have. As per the comments below, and this is what I remember from the early months, was that it was possible to charm a DB mob but with a short end on the duration being possibly shorter than a single pull, it was a no-go for groups.

Also the comments show it was known how to break charm at a time of the caster's choosing.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010108...asp?SpellID=43

Spell description:

This spell charms the target and turns it into a pet of the caster. Normal pet commands will work on this pet, unlike animations. Note that when the charm breaks, the formerly charmed creature will be extremely aggressive towards the caster. Many tactics for Enchanters involve the use of this spell, which has been responsible for both incredible victories and abject defeats. Use with awareness of the randomness of the spell's duration.

Comments:

Careful with this one - Mecha Spectre
The duration is unstable, but it's always reliable in one way -- It's short. It won't last long. And then you'll have two things to fight. It's also fairly hard to charm ... well, anything white or above, from my experience. They break out of it alot faster, as well.

Extending Charm duration -
Hi, I did a little research involving Orc Centurions in GFay to find out about the duration of this spell. That time I was lvl 12 or 13, I do not remember. My charisma is 115. This seems to be important for success as well as duration. Anyway, I did quite extensive experiments with about 15 to 20 orc cents. in all cases, the spell lasted around 30 seconds to 1 minute. But in the cases where I used Tashan first, the shortest duration I had was more than 4.5 minutes! One was well over 8 minutes, if I remember correctly. You should be aware that with higher lvl opponents, like the Nybright sisters, the effect of Tashan is still quite obvious, but of course the duration is not as good. With them, I had duration times of about 2 to 5 minutes, while without Tashan they break the charm almost instantly (less than 30 seconds in most cases). One last comment: This whole thing was about a month ago, and it can very well have changed since then. Anyway, perhaps this helps. I didn't see it in the comments on this spell. Nagisa

The duration isint really random - Asmodan
charm is based on the resistance of the creature but any creature will break free eventually so i guess the testing agianst the charm gets stronger the longer it is. my suggestion is charm griffawns you can use green griffawns to kill red crag spiders and the griffawn dies from poison so remember to cast taishan before charm[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Easy pet release for dark elves - Nincarnas
It's easy to release your charmed pet when *you* want with a dark elf - you just need to hide, which is one of the dark elves natural abilities. To give yourself more time for whatever you wish to do with your former pet, make it sit down first (/pet sit down) and move away from it.

Pet release for non-Dark Elves. - Miria
Invisable will also release a charmed creature. Useful when you want to use charm to just to move the creature to a more suitable area to fight.

[kul69]

1. Tashan should resist. Proof was already provided. It shouldn't be a lure.
2. Pets should take experience from groups if they do the most damage.

Two changes that need to happen and were proven. As mentioned above tashan is required to get any meaningful duration out of charm but on P99 it is unresistable making pulling with tashan and charm an easy win combo. If you pulled with tashan and it got resisted somewhat regularly that is significantly more challenging as it also prevents reliable charming until landed.

Groups likely didn't use pets like Osargen in HHK because they would take the experience. This explains why everyone enchanter didn't run around with charmed backstabbing pets like we see on P99. It actually killed experience same as soloing with a charmed pet and letting it get kills.

Also didn't it say 75% of experience is taken and not 50% if a pet gets highest damage?

[bubur]

put the proven bit in the bug forums, or nothin will happen

[fadetree]

People, people. Nobody that can make a difference is listening. Lets say all this arguing came to a point and everyone ITT agreed that charm should be nerfed. Then what? We post a strongly worded thread to the devs?
They made a mistake by listening to the whining about a few earlier problems, and gave you guys the idea that if you bitch enough they might change something. They are not going to do the same here without LOTS of actual numerical evidence from parselogs. By all means, keep arguing b/c its kind of entertaining, but it aint gonna get sh*t done.

And an overlevelled anybody CAN keep a camp according to the rules. Deal with it. It's a dick move, sure, but that's life.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree. So what items in the classic era are of such high value that they would be worth an RMTers time and are not already subject to the list mechanic?

Also, if RMT issues are your argument, then what nerfs would you propose to other solo-capable classes to ensure they don't fill the RMT void left by all these supposedly RMTing Enchanters? The 3 primary classes I think you should address are Necromancers, Shamans, and Magicians, but feel free to propose nerfs to others as well.

It's relative my dude. Just one thousand plat on Green/Teal is the equivalent of many many thousands of plat on blue due to mudflation.

Again u can check the sites and see that there are plenty of ppl attempting to sell plat on the new servers. And I'm sure the GMs are monitoring things VERY closely. Wouldn't be surprised if on of the infamous "RMT Banwaves" hits in the first few months.