War agro weapon question

[pijan]

Currently have a frostbringer and winter fury. Do you think this will be enough agro once I can proc FB or should I invest in a second proc like WESS or something? On a side not how hard is it to get Infestation? Is it really just the poison proc that's so good for it? If so is scorpikis claw a suitable replacement for lower levels?

[bigjeff100]

WESS is wonderful agro, top notch agro. BUT it can be a bit risky. A risk many don't care to deal with. Problem with your winter fury is no proc. A good cheap option would be a Sarnak Warhammer. I always liked mine, still bust it out when i'm tankin casters. Blood point would be a better poison proc option, but will run ya close to 2k. Silken whip of ensnaring will get ya agro too but just like the WESS not sure the root aspect is something u want to deal with...

[smitho1984]

Originally Posted by bigjeff100 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blood point would be a better poison proc option, but will run ya close to 2k. Silken whip of ensnaring will get ya agro too but just like the WESS not sure the root aspect is something u want to deal with...

Blood point is lifetap proc not poison and silken whip is snare not root proc nor does WESS have a root proc aspect for clarification. Focus on white damage till 40's, fast ratio in primary and get haste item immediately. FBSS or CoF if you can afford it.

[beargryllz]

WESS is fantastic aggro weapon and I think FB/WESS is one of the best possible combos a warrior can outright purchase for a small fee in EC tunnel

Infestation is superior to either, and it isn't very hard to get at all. Plenty of them rot and Vilefang is only a 24h spawn requiring 1 solid group to kill.

Infestation + Frostbringer is probably the best possible tanking combination until you get epics

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by beargryllz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Infestation is superior to either, and it isn't very hard to get at all. Plenty of them rot and Vilefang is only a 24h spawn requiring 1 solid group to kill.

Depends how you look at it. I agree infestation is the better overall weapon as it has much better melee threat and dps which makes it more consistent when you don't get a proc. Additionally, it doesn't have the whole blind issue which can rarely cause problems. Overall, yep I'd say it's better and will likely always be in my primary slot. If you only cared about raw aggro over time though, WESS will run circles around infestation. The extra poison counter, blind, and debuff on the proc are that potent. In every day routine use where you don't always get an early proc, however, infestation will be more consistently good.

WESS also comes with very nice AC plus resists. Even though it has a paltry 11/23 ratio, it makes an excellent offhander.

Having said that, I generally use infestation + FB unless the group needs snare ... in which case I'll use infestation and the 14/28 silken whip of ensnaring.

Originally Posted by beargryllz;2754671Infestation

+ Frostbringer is probably the best possible tanking combination until you get epics

Infestation generates a lot more aggro than red epic. 900 threat per proc vs ~500 more than makes up for red epic's ratio. Blue epic is great for dps but has no proc. Velious tradeable weapons made epics obsolete/optional. For tanking threat, FB + WESS (or WESS + FB) will generate a lot more aggro than dual epics. Toss infestation (not tradeable) into the equation and epics are a functional trophy at best. Blue will always have a niche for the attack boost.

[beargryllz]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Depends how you look at it. I agree infestation is the better overall weapon as it has much better melee threat and dps which makes it more consistent when you don't get a proc. Additionally, it doesn't have the whole blind issue which can rarely cause problems. Overall, yep I'd say it's better and will likely always be in my primary slot. If you only cared about raw aggro over time though, WESS will run circles around infestation. The extra poison counter, blind, and debuff on the proc are that potent. In every day routine use where you don't always get an early proc, however, infestation will be more consistently good.

WESS also comes with very nice AC plus resists. Even though it has a paltry 11/23 ratio, it makes an excellent offhander.

Having said that, I generally use infestation + FB unless the group needs snare ... in which case I'll use infestation and the 14/28 silken whip of ensnaring.



Infestation generates a lot more aggro than red epic. 900 threat per proc vs ~500 more than makes up for red epic's ratio. Blue epic is great for dps but has no proc. Velious tradeable weapons made epics obsolete/optional. For tanking threat, FB + WESS (or WESS + FB) will generate a lot more aggro than dual epics. Toss infestation (not tradeable) into the equation and epics are a functional trophy at best. Blue will always have a niche for the attack boost.

You'll understand this after you've been tanking for a while, but the added aggro on WESS is honestly irrelevant in that it's excessive. It's also unreliable. It's also not an issue because the other people generating aggro either have evade, FD, or are swinging a 2H for damage. On fights that matter, you're going to dump a net or some mallet charges into the boss. On fights that don't matter, nobody cares if a rogue fails to play properly and ends up eating a few too many melee hits and needs to get rezzed

Red might proc for slightly less +hate than Infestation or WESS, but it's still a superior tanking weapon because it has 50 HP and the alternatives have 0 HP. Once you've tanked for a while, you'll see what I mean.

Swinging FB + infestation might generate more aggro, but nobody cares about a dead tank that had lots of aggro. You want a living tank that still has a crazy amount of aggro generated.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by beargryllz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Red might proc for slightly less +hate than Infestation or WESS, but it's still a superior tanking weapon because it has 50 HP and the alternatives have 0 HP. Once you've tanked for a while, you'll see what I mean.

Half the aggro per proc is not *slightly less*. Red's proc is around 500 threat. Infestation is ~900 threat. WESS? That one is simply nuts. 4 poison counters (1200 hate) + debuff + blind which bring it close to or just above 2000 threat - close to 4x stronger that red proc. The ratio is disappointing but it does have 12ac and 5sv magic. I agree with you that the hate on WESS is overkill - hence why I don't use it most of the time now that I have infestation, but don't downplay the difference in proc strength.

Red is a fine weapon. It'd be absolutely stellar if you could use it offhand. It's got a great ratio, 5 sv all, 50hp, and 15 stamina. I'd use it if I had it, but my point still stands: Velious tradeable weapons made epics completely optional in a functional sense and obsolete from a pure threat standpoint. They're worth having, but unlike in kunark you can not only function without them - you can outperform them. Prior to velious tanks were stuck with sarnak warhammer + silken whip of ensnaring (or troch's skean if you scored one for offhand) until you had epics or the VP blade.

Originally Posted by beargryllz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Swinging FB + infestation might generate more aggro, but nobody cares about a dead tank that had lots of aggro. You want a living tank that still has a crazy amount of aggro generated.

If 50hp makes the difference between a living tank and a dead tank, you've got cleric problems, not warrior gear problems.

Originally Posted by beargryllz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once you've tanked for a while, you'll see what I mean.

I've got a decade of raid leading/tanking with a warrior under my belt, thanks.

Edit: I do need to state that it wasn't until my time here on p99 that I observed the practice of dumping clickies into a raid target on engage being commonplace. During the classic timeline the approach was to give the warrior ample time to establish aggro prior to raid dps engage ... and on tough targets to suicide a ranger to weaponshield to help the tank establish a lead on aggro. Mallet/strings/net dumping makes warrior weapon choices less important unfortunately. Procs mattered then - a lot. This is also the reason why Aten Ha Ra's gloves were so coveted from luclin onward. PoP introduced that range item that gave you a spell buff imbued stun proc also - now 2 invaluable items that gave warriors 2 extra procs per minute.

[Newt]

Originally Posted by beargryllz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WESS is fantastic aggro weapon and I think FB/WESS is one of the best possible combos a warrior can outright purchase for a small fee in EC tunnel

Infestation is superior to either, and it isn't very hard to get at all. Plenty of them rot and Vilefang is only a 24h spawn requiring 1 solid group to kill.

Infestation + Frostbringer is probably the best possible tanking combination until you get epics

For a "Small fee"... Speak for yourself!

[Jimjam]

Isn't silken whip snare, not root?

Infestation has a couple of small drawbacks (which somewhat overlap with those of WESS); piercing has a lower skill cap so does less dps against mobs close to your level. Also, it has a small dot component which can make target switches more tricky if your group is using mez as its primary form of crowd control.

[bigjeff100]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn't silken whip snare, not root?

Infestation has a couple of small drawbacks (which somewhat overlap with those of WESS); piercing has a lower skill cap so does less dps against mobs close to your level. Also, it has a small dot component which can make target switches more tricky if your group is using mez as its primary form of crowd control.

haha yup ur right, i spaced...