new patch ench charm

[Glitch]

I'm also a super pro and forced recharm a lot with hide, so I never took damage between charms.
Charm certainly wasn't a guaranteed 15minutes last week, but it was happening too often (without malo). As I said before. It should be a bit less reliable than that, but certainly not as unreliable as this.


It's funny. When I went searching the net for documentation, and limited my search for classic era posts, so few of them mentioned using tash before charm, and even less recommended malo. lololol
No wonder they got charm breaks. I swear it's mainly an issue of everyone suddenly knowing how to play vs. ignorant 1999 era players. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still, the smarter posts claimed that charm was generally good for about two fights, where it's about time to break charm manually and swap pets anyways.

[Nedala]

Well 2 fights sounds about what i did prior to the merge. Maybe it was too op but now you can only dream of 2 fights without a break. 5 minutes would be totally ok but now it seems to break 1-2 times each min (if solo without malo).

[Malrubius]

Originally Posted by kanras [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct. Ways to get any mechanic changed, ranked:

1) Provide significant time-relevant data. (For charm, anything post-POP will be ignored entirely)
2) Provide time-relevant class discussion.
3) Provide time-relevant comments.

This post contains all the time-relevant data (and links to such) that I am aware of...

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6733

As a bonus, it also has classic-era statements from Verant about CHA's effect on Mez and Lull.

HTH

[Uthgaard]

Lucy also does not go to 2002 'and earlier'. It goes to March 2002, and that's it. Beside that, you can spam links to spell data all you want. Nothing in the spell data determines the reliability of the charm. That's all handled by the server's checks vs charisma and magic resist.

As far as any posts from that time frame referencing charm being unreliable being hyperbole, ubiqitous posts including stats, durations, and frustration with charm identical to the condensed raging on this thread don't exactly contradict the change. So far the extent of the argument for changing it back has been unsupported anecdotes of "I remember this". The only tangible documentation that has been provided in this thread, at all, is documentation of its notorious unreliability.

It's not going back the way it was, you'll just have to accept that. If you think it should be more reliable than it is now, start posting something to back that up with a relevant timestamp.

[nalkin]

Originally Posted by Glitch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm also a super pro and forced recharm a lot with hide, so I never took damage between charms.

Pro~. Well that would explain why I thought it was so long. Though still, if it was not difficult to re-charm then that still seems a bit OP to me. I also think Glitch may be right with what he said below this post about how people know more about what they are doing. It probably wasn't as OP as it used to be because people were still figuring things out, and now with all the pros on here it changes things.

5 min avg I am fine with that and think that is fair. Like I said though, when whirl was pre-nerf watching an enchanter play made me sick to my stomach at how easy it was. So I am still smacking my lips from the bitterness...

[Jigga]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPell allure

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/200...?Id=142&Page=1

Quote:
Unbelievable - Brainslayer (1/28/2001)

Due to having multiple enchanters in our groups, I was able to play around with this spell on a recent fire giant raid in solusek b. I never relized how powerful it was before until I casted it on Warlord Skarlon. He was charmed for atleast 5 min. It was the funniest thing when when a fire giant warrior began to summon him, the entire dungeon nearly died laughing, but so did I when he broke the spell.


Quote:
WOW - Cassie (1/28/2001)

I cast this on a Dark Ritualist in the MM tower the other day for grins, and it was lasting upwards of 5+ minutes. To give you an idea of how long this lasts, two of my buds had time to duel, the loser got rezzed, and then medded to full all w hile the pet remained charmed. This wasn't a one-time shot either. I've noticed this routinely lasting for 4 to 5 minutes before breaking (though I've sometimes had it break after 20 seconds LOL) Not only that, in the new patch as of today we will get a message when Charm is going to break. WOOHOO!!!!! No more sudden surprises when that Hill Giant or Seafury is about to turn on you The run of chanter twinks with each patch continues.


seafury 38-42 and dark ritualist 33

Quote:
XICOTL, By Ordeith (1/28/2001)

Xicotl in MM is a wonderful target for this spell, hits for 100 max, casts spells, tons of HP...*grins* I charmed him and he was soloing half of the garden area around the damph, spell held for around 10 mins also, with 200 cha of course.

according to alla xicotl is a 41 mob

Was posted earlier but no one commented on it, kind of shows some testimonials from ench from around that time which seems better than someone just posting lucy data

[Malrubius]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lucy also does not go to 2002 'and earlier'. It goes to March 2002, and that's it. Beside that, you can spam links to spell data all you want. Nothing in the spell data determines the reliability of the charm. That's all handled by the server's checks vs charisma and magic resist.

As far as any posts from that time frame referencing charm being unreliable being hyperbole, ubiqitous posts including stats, durations, and frustration with charm identical to the condensed raging on this thread don't exactly contradict the change. So far the extent of the argument for changing it back has been unsupported anecdotes of "I remember this". The only tangible documentation that has been provided in this thread, at all, is documentation of its notorious unreliability.

It's not going back the way it was, you'll just have to accept that. If you think it should be more reliable than it is now, start posting something to back that up with a relevant timestamp.

Hi Uthgaard. Just for the record, I agree with you, and the links and comments from 99-02 that I linked above do indeed point to an unreliability that I think should be there.

I was just hoping it may be useful (if sparse) data from "back in the day" as you guys tweak things further.

From what I have read of the recent changes, it sounds like you guys have taken a big step in the right direction.

[Treats]

Posting here that charm was not OP before is way off. Before this last patch it was kind of ridiculous. I soloed in Chardok through half of 58 and nearly all of 59 using charm and died once. If you do not consider that OP I'm not sure exactly what your definition of it would be. Even having charms consistently last five to seven minutes would be pretty overpowered. I'll explain what tactics I used below and why:

Typical session in Chardok soloing. Buff (having Rune V up at all times was a must, 254 Charisma), use air elemental illusion, and invis to front gate. Target mobs in the lev tunnel, calm. Run across and use Level 4 Mesmerize to mez pet I wanted. Tash pet and charm. Wait for mez to wear off, 24 seconds. 99% of the time my pets would be casters. Most of them could go through two to three melee (Janissarys, Myrmidons) per charmed pet. I made sure I never fought caster on caster (this was the one time I died when I made this mistake I think). While pet was fighting melee mob I always made sure that mob was tashed and rooted. Reroot as my pet (caster) nuked and unrooted so if charm did happen to break I could remez/retash/recharm. When pet was low, pet guard and run a little ways away to invis. Mez/Nuke until dead. Once current pet was dead, calm around melee and repeat with another caster.

My pet fighting summoning mobs and Templars (shaman that cast their fucking dots on my pet) was a big nono and I rarely ever did this. Having a pet that summoned increased the difficulty. As long as I had the mob it was fighting rooted and stood directly behind my pet (so he wouldn't summon me if he broke) it was doable without too much more risk.

On average I would say each one of my pets lasted 5-7 minutes (Except for the occasional Aruspice that could go through three to four mobs) before they were low hp and out of mana so I could kill them. I would get charm breaks from time to time but they were VERY RARE. What I described here could probably still be done although it would definately not be as fast. You would end up blowing alot of mana on recharms and runes. Having a consistent 5-7 minute charm on a pet would basically be the same as pre-patch using these tactics.

[metax]

charm is still op myself as a necro am able to still solo com 2nd and 3rd floor with ease thx for nerf tho

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Posting here that charm was not OP before is way off. Before this last patch it was kind of ridiculous. I soloed in Chardok through half of 58 and nearly all of 59 using charm and died once. If you do not consider that OP I'm not sure exactly what your definition of it would be. Even having charms consistently last five to seven minutes would be pretty overpowered. I'll explain what tactics I used below and why:

Typical session in Chardok soloing. Buff (having Rune V up at all times was a must, 254 Charisma), use air elemental illusion, and invis to front gate. Target mobs in the lev tunnel, calm. Run across and use Level 4 Mesmerize to mez pet I wanted. Tash pet and charm. Wait for mez to wear off, 24 seconds. 99% of the time my pets would be casters. Most of them could go through two to three melee (Janissarys, Myrmidons) per charmed pet. I made sure I never fought caster on caster (this was the one time I died when I made this mistake I think). While pet was fighting melee mob I always made sure that mob was tashed and rooted. Reroot as my pet (caster) nuked and unrooted so if charm did happen to break I could remez/retash/recharm. When pet was low, pet guard and run a little ways away to invis. Mez/Nuke until dead. Once current pet was dead, calm around melee and repeat with another caster.

Yeah I basically used this strategy on my Enc whenever I played him. Ridiculously fast leveling because you pretty much get to kill mobs twice as fast (since you get to level off your own pet once it gets low and you just invis). It was fun and all but definitely OP.