most underpowered class in game?

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by socialist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The class was designed in spirit to have a bit of everything, but it's not as if anybody genuinely considers the bard to have any relevant melee capabilities, or tanking, or damage-dealing. Having a long list of ability types doesn't mean much if most of them are either weak as piss or serve no particular purpose in ordinary gameplay.

I mostly agree with you about the bard's role in a typical 6 man group.

I also think bards look more versatile if you consider the breadth of their "ordinary gameplay" instead of their role in a 6 man group.

I did quite a bit of time in those 6 man groups, but I also charm soloed multiple levels. And pbaoe kited a chunk, whether solo or small group or pling. And duoed, doing slow/haste/regen/melee; or with aoe dots and support for root rotting or cluster charming; or fear kiting.

Originally Posted by socialist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's if you can maintain them all, because while they do apply a resistance debuff, it's not exactly huge and plenty of things in the endgame will be immune to one or more of magic, fire and cold.

I haven't felt limited by specific immunities very often, but it's a bummer that non-lure damage spells are garbage against high level mobs in general (talking ToV, not Seb).

For raids it would be nice if Ervaj exceeded the haste cap to make it closer to justifiable to put a bard in a rogue group. And if songs went to a separate buff window to make it nicer to put a bard with a tank. And if mana pump were somehow less mind numbing.

[Jimjam]

Having 2 bards in the group does solve the dilemma of whether to pump mana or pull.

[starkind]

Someone should do 6 bards fear kiting indoors. Or 5 bards 1 ranger.

Would be fucking hilarious.

[socialist]

I mean, you can literally do the math. Look up the numbers and add them up. EQ DPS is not some advanced science. If something ticks for X every 6 seconds, it does X/6 DPS. For three chants, add them together. Multiply for instrument modifier. That's the DPS of chants. There isn't any mystery to it. There's no debate. You have quoted demonstrably incorrect values that anyone can look up and see for themselves.

You're capable of fourth grade maths, right? Some idiot posting a number on Allakhazam a decade ago is meaningless. We know the numbers. We can add numbers together. Get with the program. Bards do not do real DPS, even if some imbecile in the Allakhazam comments from 2007 said he does great DPS. You know, I learned from the Allakhazam comments that if you sit too close to a mob's respawn point, it delays the respawn timer.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by socialist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, you can literally do the math. Look up the numbers and add them up. EQ DPS is not some advanced science. If something ticks for X every 6 seconds, it does X/6 DPS. For three chants, add them together. Multiply for instrument modifier. That's the DPS of chants. There isn't any mystery to it. There's no debate. You have quoted demonstrably incorrect values that anyone can look up and see for themselves.

You're capable of fourth grade maths, right? Some idiot posting a number on Allakhazam a decade ago is meaningless. We know the numbers. We can add numbers together. Get with the program. Bards do not do real DPS, even if some imbecile in the Allakhazam comments from 2007 said he does great DPS. You know, I learned from the Allakhazam comments that if you sit too close to a mob's respawn point, it delays the respawn timer.

But again you're moving the goalposts. The whole discussion is that Bards are jacks of all trades master on none. They don't need to do tremendous DPS for that description to apply. That's the point

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by socialist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, you can literally do the math. Look up the numbers and add them up. EQ DPS is not some advanced science. If something ticks for X every 6 seconds, it does X/6 DPS. For three chants, add them together. Multiply for instrument modifier. That's the DPS of chants. There isn't any mystery to it. There's no debate. You have quoted demonstrably incorrect values that anyone can look up and see for themselves.

Angstlich's Assonance, Denon's Bereavement, and Selo's Chords of Cessation. Those were the dots quoted as doing 68 DPS and none those are chants. They benefit from brass and string mods, not percussion.

Originally Posted by socialist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're capable of fourth grade maths, right? Some idiot posting a number on Allakhazam a decade ago is meaningless. We know the numbers. We can add numbers together. Get with the program. Bards do not do real DPS, even if some imbecile in the Allakhazam comments from 2007 said he does great DPS. You know, I learned from the Allakhazam comments that if you sit too close to a mob's respawn point, it delays the respawn timer.

Again, that wasn't the argument being made. You're capable of fourth grade reading, right?

[Ennewi]

As to which class is the most underpowered during this era, it's common knowledge what all classes are the least popular still (wiz, mag, etc.) and that is as good an indication as any. But the whole point of EQ was just that, not being overly powerful, not trivializing content. Even the more OP classes on p99 aren't nearly as powerful as the weakest classes in newer MMOs. Enchanters are still dependent on wizards to get to hate and sky. Shamans are still depending on magicians to get cothed to PoM click-in. Etc. And it could be argued that the least powerful classes are getting the most out of the game. Race/class xp penalties, night blindness, unremarkable disciplines all require the player to be creative and do more with less.

[socialist]

I'm too drunk to read this tonight, but I promise I'll reply tomorrow.

[Skarne]

im too drunk to light the bong im too stoned to write this song

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know who you were comparing to but enchanters were just as overpowered in classic as they are in kunark and velious.
They can solo any named mob non raid mob in kedge/sol b/guk
Only necros even come close.

Warriors and rogues are pretty weak in classic

People didn't charm much back in 99, for many reasons but especially network lag and low framerates.

Without charm, an enchanter is reduced to pet soloing which is what most did, and it resulted in a "weak" perception of the class, as it was seen as very group dependent.