Spells: Bard Aggro

[Ennewi]

After the 2003/2004 reduction to song aggro.

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ninuvian is not online. Last active: 3/10/2004 8:39:19 PM ninuvian
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Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 4:35 PM
Hey all i just wanna know if bard can tank?
I sing for glory! I sing for rallos zek! http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=933661

delanion is not online. Last active: 11/1/2004 8:21:14 AM delanion
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Re: Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 4:45 PM
Yes, bards can tank. No, they don't do it particularly well. We have armor like a pally / Sk, but hp like a ranger, defensive skills a little lower than any other hybrid(iirc), and very little capability to get and maintain aggro.

If you want to be a bard capable of tanking, then focus on AC / hp gear over all other stats. This is how I built my bard and I would definately say I am more versatile because of it. Getting and maintaining aggro is half a function of you working at getting it, half a function of everyone else letting you have it. Dots and Shield of Songs are good ways to get aggro in groups, depending on level.

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corahvz is not online. Last active: 10/7/2004 7:44:11 PM corahvz
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Re: Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 5:57 PM
Yea, we can tank - it's keeping agro that is the real problem!
Muse Corah
Maestro ~ Defiant ~ Vallon Zek

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Re: Can bards be tanks?
Posted: Feb 12 04 11:16 PM
As I remember one bard in EQDiva telling me a while back "We do not play to hold agro, we pray to hold agro." Lived by it ever since [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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RE: Bards agro
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#Jan 25 2005 at 8:41 PMRating: Decent
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229 posts
Yes. Bard aggro was reduced across the board a long time ago. The problem was the huge aggro generated by things like AE regen, which heals everyone in a raid.

I can snare, HoS (resist debuf), slow and bellow at a mob while bringing it into camp. A warrior can shoot an arrow and miss and it heads straight for him. Actually, he doesn't even have to do that. If he's still hitting on the last mob it will peal off on him as it passes by.

FYI, bards do get double attack via AAs. Not as good perhaps, but we still get it.

Before the 2003/2004 reduction to song aggro.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=325

E: Bardic Frustration Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Sun, Apr 1st 6:29 PM 2001 Score: Good[4.00]
ooc
I play a bard on Tallon Zek, and she is wonderful. All I can say is, the best is yet to come. Be happy with your level, because with each level, you have something new to play with.

In terms of combat, the songs I play/decide upon, depends on the group itself, and what the group is doing.

At early 20's, my best experience was in a full group at the porch of the sarnak fort. We were going almost non stop, train after train, we did that for a three days, and apparently the group told me it could not be done without a bard. (me).

What was I doing?

Tanking with weapons, tanking with instruments, slowing, snaring, mezzing with instruments, mezzing without instruments, healing with instruments, anthem, pulling off casters, etc. It depends on whether its tank heavy, caster heavy, has fidgety members etc.

You, of all people, have to guage the group, and see. For example, a certain puller tends to like to pull large trains. And a certain wizard in the group likes to over nuke.

What to do? Well, mez song comes to mind. But also snare. In this case, if there's a good tank, I may not use snare. If tanks are not good, I go with weapons and snare to make sure that I can taunt off the poor wizard. Or, I may use Mez with an instrument and switch to all CHR gear.

RE: Some advice on Brass Reply... By: Kollins, Sage
141 posts
Posted @ Thu, Apr 5th 7:11 AM 2001 Score: Excellent[4.66]
Brass can be improved without it affecting anything you just don't get any animation. The best thing to do with brass instrument skill is to not put a point into it until you get your song at 18. If you train at 18 then you start with a skill of 18 not a skill of 11 and it makes it easier to start the song and the skill doesn't have to go up as much. As for what/how the ultimate would be to don enough gear for 200 int and drop your bard in the non-PvP part of The Arena for however long your ISP will let you stay (afk of course) but some alternatives are the tunnel in N Ro as suggested and also the top of the ramp to highpass in EK, up on the sides. EC side of the tunnel is dangerous, some wise guy will see you and train one of those butt kicking ninja merchants down on you when your afk. Any isolated spot works but it's best if you are far enough away from mobs/guards/NPCs that only a fellow bard could survive trying to train something that could kill you.

All you have to do is mem your song, put your horn in your offhand and fire it up. Then you just go afk for a good 6-8 hour span and when you come back to your computer you will see you have brass skill now (if you get dumped you can always check your log file for your current skill.) As with most skills some stats seem to affect the speed you skill up, for instruments it seems to be the higher of int or wis like trade skills so grab some int gear if you have it since that will help; Most bards have higher int than wis and technically we are int casters although I won't get into bard mana here. This is easy to do if you start up a song before you go to bed, then check it in the morning. It's also handy to put in an AFK message although I had put in '/afk practicing brass skill' and when I checked my logs a few people had sent me tells then replied to my afk message like they didn't belive it.

After you get your skill maxed it's a good idea to find a semi remote spot and play it every new level so you keep the skill current. Other instrument skills are easy because there are non damage songs that you can use but brass is the most annoying because of the types of songs that use the skill until you get berzerker crescendo at 42 (crappy song btw, I had better luck using the old celerity song over crescendo.) Once you get to level 26 you can practice with appalling screech which opens up the places you can practice a little to now include any zone where you can 'scare' anything that gets trained to you before it tries to kill you, like gfay.

The reason you want your instrument skills maxed is because any song that requires an instruement skill will have a higher fizzle rate, known to bards as missed notes, if you have low skill, this includes songs that you 'sing' with weapons equipped which start or don't start based on their skill ie if your string skill sucks you can't start up hymm even if you have your swords equipped. The reason you want brass skill is because DDD is a killer AE DoT and a great mega taunt for keeping your group healers free (it's also fun to kill newbie mobs with) and fear song is something that you will almost always have memmed from 26 to 60.

Oh yea, in case anybody didn't know, the max skill for all instrument skills and singing is the formula: (level + 1) * 5

https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=275

RE: Stats and Armor Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Tue, May 15th 9:58 PM 2001 Score: Default[2.00]
Hi, I'm a 51 bard on rodcet nife and as people call us, "jack of all trades" you have to take that into concideration everywhere you go. At the lower levels(15-30) i solo'ed everywhere i went. I think the only reason why i could do this was because i was a twink, but when you buy armor you have to consider what you need the most. I had two pieces of SS armor and mith for the str. I rocketed through the levels because of the ac and str i could solo. Later in the 30's i had to concentrate more towards grouping a little and that means new armor(yes trading armor is time consuming but it helps). You have to start working for AC items and that means ss because it has better AC than some planar. At my level, AC is god, plain and simple. Str, dex,agi,cha you don't really need to concentrate on because that shammy in your group can raise it over 50 points. You have to think about what you use and your armor will decide whether you live or you don't. When a protector of growth misses you 4 times in a row, you sit back and smile because you would have easily been down to 1/2 life. Bards do not do dmg at higher levels. I hate to say this ,but that mage pet in my group hits harder than i do, but bards aren't about the dmg, it's the songs we do, and when we get too much agro, we have to have the AC to hold off while the cleric heals the tanks. I hope my info has helped in any way, shape or form and good luck in the hunting. Kunark is simply the best place to fight 18-50.
H. Silvertune
51 minstrel of Rodcet Nife
Long live Anarchy's dominion!!

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RE: Need More Advice Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Fri, May 18th 12:40 PM 2001 Score: Default[2.00]
IMHO, you can twist your lvl 1 song Chant of Battle and lvl 6 song Hymn of Restoration to buff and heal your party during battles. Try to throw in your lvl 2 song Chords of Dissonance in between if you could. At lower level your tanks won't be doing massive demage yet, so I'd suggest you to melee as well if you are not in a full group/nearly-full group while twisting songs. Watch out for the mobs though. Since your songs have a huge taunting effect, you might get several mobs aggro on you instead of the tanks. At time like this, stop your songs and let the tanks to tuant the mobs off you. Then you can start twisting again. =)After you hit lvl 8 and have learned the skill of stringed instruments, you can have a choice of playing instrument instead of doing melee when you are in a full group/nearly full group. Since both the Chords and Hymn are more powerful when played with stringed instruments, you can DoT and heal your group more while still buffing them with the Chant. Of course, don't forget to play your Hymn during down time. =)

Hope this helps.

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RE: Attribute allocation. Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Tue, Jun 5th 8:18 AM 2001 Score: Default[1.50]
Post 50 bards are the best crowd controlers as they have the AC to handle the agro generated by the mobs. Enchanters die to fast.
The only thing that matters to charm/mezzing is Charisma. Therefore put all your points into CHA to allow better crowd control. Then put the remaining into DEX for better instrument playing. Dont worry bout str or stam, you roll is not to generate dmg, but help the group generate dmg.
Hope this helps.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020111...ss=4&start=125

Tactics Reply... By: riffler,
5 posts
Posted @ Wed, Aug 22nd 7:47 PM 2001 Score: Decent[3.00]
Haven't played my Bard for months, but reading the discussions on what songs to play reminded me of the time I was camping orcs in HHP...
It was a quiet time on the server, and I was grouped with 2 tanks, noone else around. With a group that small ( all level 18-19 ) the orc camps is pretty much impossible without significant twinkage, right?
Wrong. I let the tanks take an orc each while I played area DoTs and heal, swapping instruments and trying to stay out of trouble. It was very tiring work, but we held the camp for about an hour, no problem, when more people started to join up (including a cleric, thankfully [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ). I was too tired to pay much attention to what was going on, and anyway, most of the orcs were still dying from DoTs, suggesting I was still outdamaging everyone else, so I stuck with my tactics, when the group suddenly got into a mess - not taking orcs down quickly enough, and getting hit by fast respawn. There I was still playing area DoTs/ heals and therefore getting MASSIVE aggro from 5 or 6 orcs. OUCH. I just carried on - no way were they going to leave me alone with my hps down to where they were and all that aggro already achieved, and fortunately the cleric managed to heal me and all the orcs were killed and I survived.
So, my point is, use of unusual songs by a switched-on bard can make a group far more effective than it has any right to be. Don't just unthinkingly play what's worked in the past or what people tell you to play, THINK. And most of all, if the situation changes, RETHINK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

RE: Endevor Reply... By: Belinar,
5 posts
Posted @ Mon, Aug 27th 10:57 AM 2001 Score: Excellent[4.50]
We was talking about twisting Hymn during battle, I believe.

Here's what I do. As a lvl 32 ( soon to be 33 ) bard, this is a good line-up ( according to my groups )

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** note here **
After you sick your pet on the mob, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hit F1 twice and re-target your pet! forgetting to do this can really mess up your CC. Charm is the most Uber taunt in the world...it put's all other forms of taunt to shame, and unless you charm the same one over and over again, you'll have an entire host of former pets a little annoied at you. ( I'd even venture to say it's on par or better than complete heal )

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RE: Bards = CRAP Reply... By: Mahatma, Scholar
42 posts
Posted @ Thu, Nov 8th 1:09 PM 2001 Score: Decent[2.70]
Actually, a bard can quite effectively steal the aggro off a caster that has over nuked or the enchanter whose mez just got resisted in a mere 6 seconds. How? Remember that charm song you get at level 28 and 39? Well, it also has a mem blur effect tacked onto the end of it. The mob will not remember who or what did the damage it has received, but it WILL remember that the bard charmed it and it must've done something it didn't really want to do. Now the mob is rushing the bard!

Ack!! Bards can't take hits very well!

Well, when the bard hides to erase the charm, the chanter can just throw on a root or try to mez again, now that he/she's not getting interrupted. Or the bard takes a few more hits than the caster could while the main tank taunts it off. Or the bard doesn't hide and uses his new pet to kill the other mob that just jumped that cleric that's medding for your heals.

Alone, bards kindof stink (if you're looking at them from a warrior's perspective). They can't melee or deal significant damage, and they can't rapidly heal lost hitpoints. But a bard in a group makes a very strong group. Case in point...

4 Tanks, 1 Cleric: The bard twists regen and haste for the tanks, possibly slows down the mob's attack so the fight doesn't last long, thereby reducing the amount of mana the cleric has to use to heal up those sacks of hitpoints. During downtimes, the bard is regenning the cleric's mana and the other tanks hitpoints while the puller is busy finding a mob.

Some groups you would normally consider just a pogrom of the most ineffective classes, when coupled with a bard, become killing machines. Rangers don't tank too well, shamans don't heal as well as a cleric, Pallies tank, but don't deal damage and don't heal too well, etc.

Summary: Bards are the utility-man of any group.

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A Bard does need an Audience indeed. Reply... By: kezefy,
1 posts
Posted @ Wed, Jan 23rd 12:20 AM 2002 Score: Decent[3.00]
Ever since I achieved the 50th level with my bard I receive numerous tells on what is the best way to play a bard. So I figured I'd share a few of the tricks I have learned.

Method 1: Solo, find a nice wide open area. Twist Selos (lvl 5), Largos melodic binding (lvl 20), Fufils (lvl 30), Chant of flame (lvl 38), Chant of Frost (lvl46).
*All songs except Largos are precussion so no instrument changes need. Also particularly effetive with nostrolo tambourine. (you can look up quest on this site)
*note this method does work at lower levels, but not nearly as effective without the 3 chants, also change out selos with newer version at lvl 49, and newer Largos at lvl 51.

Method 2 (my preferred method) Partner. Find a druid or a necro, put your partner in a safe spot. Pull a mob, with method 1 (also fyi if you have a druid, eliminate selos and take a sow, yes I know selos is faster, but sow is more dependable when twisting) bring back to your partner, they will root mob, and because necro and druid have Dot's they will not break root. You will hold aggro if you twist all 3 chants because you will be doing a little over 2000dmg in 60 secs with continuous twisting. If root breaks just run around till they are rerooted. A good necro or druid will only cast 1 or 2 dots per mob and will be able to med the rest of the time. They should never run out of mana, especially the necro with call of bones and lifetap. If done properly and if you dont aggro adds, you can do this without ever taking a hit, or having to stop and medditate. This has proven to be awesome exp for me and my partners.

Method 3 Group..Whatevers clever... each group is diff..but I recommend you position yourself between tanks and healer. The bard should be looked at as a healers assistant ie mana and deffense. You can still fight, but just from behind the front lines, whether it be with songs, or melee. FYI if you use your 3 chants you will prob do more dmg than the tanks. You'll notice this once you gain the aggro so be careful, contrary to popular belief...BARDS ARE NOT TANKS..we are not very good at it.

also one last point for you new prospective bards out there

Method 4 Solo in dungeons...DONT DO IT...without selos we get rocked, unless everything is absolute green, a blue mob will rock you.

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RE: I don't see the point
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#Dec 01 2003 at 2:13 AMRating: Decent
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194 posts
I think this song is very useful. There are many reasons why a bard could get a big mob aggroed on him. For example I could have been mezzing the mob, or I could have charmed the mob, or it could be an add that no one has done anything to which jumped on me as soon as it noticed i cast a group-wide buff (which generates aggro, of course, and happens every 3 seconds). And whether a bard can 'take hits' is not the point, you don't want mobs dishing out melee damage to many different people; it just makes it harder for your healer to keep up with it. I ALWAYS have this song memmed when I'm grouped in a dungeon, and find it quite useful.

I don't see the use of this song while soloing at all, though. If you want a mob to go after your charmed pet instead of you, just hit it with any targeted snare song and run away a bit. The mob will give up trying to chase you as soon as it realizes it's snared and will go after the pet... and as long as you don't generate more aggro, it'll stay on the pet even after the snare wears off.

Commenter below indicates that at least certain specific procs were reliable sources of aggro for bards which does not support the notion that bard procs were all equally capped at that point, much less earlier.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040817...tID=8536#13136

Anulien is not online. Last active: 8/15/2004 1:40:09 PM Anulien
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My tankbard game
Posted: Jun 25 03 9:42 PM
After getting bored yet again with my bard and kitting i decided to find something new to do with him, my new fun with my bard has been tanking. For the past month ive been cruising around finding things to tank that would normally be left to a real tank for taunt or hp purposes. I have found this to be one of the most enjoyable things to do with my bard. The exp usually sucks as my melee dps is low but the sheer exhiliration is worth it. I do not recommend this for everyone as the prep work has taken me some time and i have resources most dont, but if you are looking for something new to try this might be it.

...

Weapons:
Primary: Snowchipper or Pebble Crusher for proc aggro

...

Absolute riot! CHs back to back until slowed as they can double for 500+ a hit and do! Single pulled to exit, slowed at 90 and aggro was easy to maintain with pebble crusher + snowchipper.

Charm still considered to be a reliable source of aggro, with dots being described as one alternative and slow being a mainstay.

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Total Posts: 440

Re: My tankbard game
Posted: Jun 26 03 3:38 AM
2300 unbuffed?? Gah, and you are tanking man?? I have 2545 unbuffed and I am few levels lower than you...got 1250 or so AC as well.

I find the level 27 charm to work great as a taunt....wont land, but resisted it still adds nice aggro, lol.

I have also found out that 3 dots and melee works well for gaining aggro, then after about 4 or 5 rounds of dots, drop them, and go blender mode with haste, buffs, and DS.

I duo all the time with my wifes druid, and I run a 70+ point DS depending on the song, which helps a lot in getting mobs dead.

I tank all the time with only bard slow, lol, and druid heals, hehe. However, what you lack in your toons is evac. Evac is your friend, lol. Something going bad? Mez and evac, all is well. Cant mez? Root and highsun, then evac fast before the train arrives.

Mystaviant BattleBard

Virtuoso

Mystaviant is not online. Last active: 1/25/2004 3:29:59 PM Mystaviant
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Re: My tankbard game
Posted: Jun 30 03 5:43 AM
I havent found that SoS is any appreciable aggro. Angstlich's Assonance is nice aggro however, and will slow unsnareable mobs. I usually avoid mobs that cannot be mezzed, as that means that my healer/slower is toast if they pull aggro off me.

Also, on bard-slow...lots and lots of mobs, especially in pop have innate haste, or like in seb have haste spells cast on them, when you slow these types of mobs, you not only slow them 35%-52% but you also remove the effects of their haste as well, so it affects the rate at which they swing a rather large amount.

Example: Seb, random high level frog, hasted by a shammy frog...w/o I need 3 druid c-heals to win the fight, with slow, even 20% slow, I need 0-1 cheal, and take well less damage than a simple 4/5 of normal. Bard slow aint all that bad, on hasted mobs, tho I would much rather have a chanter there for 70% haste and slow, and to CC for me.

Mystaviant BattleBard

Virtuoso

Summary: Comments pertaining to bard songs from launch to late 2001, all the way until mid 2003, do not reflect what was described from tests conducted and based on 2010+ content.

[Ennewi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_expansions

EverQuest: Omens of War was released as the eighth expansion on September 14, 2004, continuing the September–February release data cycle. The expansion focused on high-level content and introduced new folklore to the EverQuest universe. This expansion: Added five more levels, increasing the cap to 70.

That same day...

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/his...es-2004-2.html

------------------------------
September 14, 2004
------------------------------

- Bard PBAoE spells will no longer damage targets that are moving,
however any other spell effects from the PBAoE spell will still be
applied to the targets as usual.

...which was right around the time comments about bards lacking aggro began, as highlighted elsewhere in this thread as well as in the quotes below.


https://web.archive.org/web/20050523...x?PostID=67436

midiannsz is not online. Last active: 4/20/2005 4:58:42 PM midiannsz
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Re: Top 10 Bard Issues Poll
Posted: Oct 19 04 11:06 AM
Voted:

Ability to Hold Agro (currently Top 10 issue).
Ability to Hold Agro (currently Top 10 issue).
Bards are no longer the kings and queens of running speed.
More type 7/8 instrument augments for placement on armor (currently top 10 issue).
Raise Melee DPS back to 65% of a warrior (current top 10 issue).


Maestro Mideon Milenko *Hate*

https://web.archive.org/web/20050127...ID=65450#65963

Xonic is not online. Last active: 1/26/2005 3:37:24 PM Xonic
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Re: What songs do you use when you want aggro?
Posted: Oct 6 04 12:34 PM
Short answer is no, we can't out agro any other classes with just songs.

WoS is just annoying atm; it is not easy to determind what named belongs to what camp, and many players don't respect "camps" anyway.

When I run into the situation you mentioned, I throw HoS, snare, mez, slow, AA bellow at the mob and sit between casts. Sometimes I have to melee the mob a little to get solid agro over the other puller. Usually I can out aggro the other puller this way only if they are bards or monks. If your compititors are any other classes than bard/monk, you are pretty much out of luck. One cast of snare, or DoT whatever, the mobs are going to be on them.
Hard decisions: Intel or AMD, nVidia or ATI, Windows or Linux, Neverwinter Nights or Counter-Strike, computer or women.
My Mains:Xonic - 70 Bard, Xinn - 65 Archer, Xonia - 65 Cleric

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Re: What songs do you use when you want aggro?
Posted: Oct 7 04 2:03 PM
If you are playing in WoS I would suggest you get the timer instead of checking your track list. Bard sucks on getting aggro. Snarer cast 2x snare will over taunted you even you sat down.

Pulled 2 to 3 named every 15min in WoS coz i got my timer right. Plus sometime I pull ZI named to castle wall too.

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20001026...asses/bard.cfm

14:35:18 Oct 26, 2000

One of the disadvantages of all this song and dance is the attention you'll get from the monsters. They know who is buffing the entire party and causing them grief, so given a chance they will come after the bard first. Luckily bards can wear plate armor, but they will never be able to tank like a warrior type class is able to. A smart bard knows when to play what, and not attract undue attention. A poorly played bard will require a dedicated healer just to keep them alive. Perhaps to offset this uncanny ability to get themselves killed, bards seem to have a pretty forgiving experience penalty for dying.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000615...d.com/Bard.htm

19:34:45 Jun 15, 2000

Curative Songs
("Let me sing a song about a wound that is soon gone..")

The bard recieves a couple of songs that restores Hp. This might sound bad at first; but later on you'll notice the songs ability increases as you level. Also, eventually you'll acquire a song that regenerates Hp *and* Mana at the same time! The only downside about the song is that it doesn't heal right away, only over time. So it is best suited for after battles. However, if you must use it during battle you'll find it acts as a great taunting mechanism for monsters.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000617...om/bstrats.htm

09:21:50 Jun 17, 2000

Ok, you have the mob snared. This is where the bard comes in. Get within range, and sing a little tune to make the monster's ears bleed. This will grab the mobs attention big time. All bards know how their songs are "supertaunts", and fortunately it pays off in this situation. Keep the damaging song up while staying out of range of the mobs attacks. Rangers, at this point of the battle you should sit back and keep an eye on the mob. If it becomes unsnared, then re-snare it immediately. You don't want the mob to start smacking around your partner's backside. Bards, if snare wears off and it looks like your ranger friend is too busy making a sandwich with his SSoM, then use Selo's to hightail it out of there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010727...IEW.ASP?ID=761

PLAYER STRATEGY - BARD
BARD CLASS STRATEGIES AND TIPS - Javis Bladesong, Mithaniel Marr

...

As you may know bards can wear plate. Nice. It was intended that way because of the taunting power our songs radiate. Never underestimate Armor Class (AC) when you do get hit this will determine how much damage you take.

...

Before we go any further let me say that you most likely will end up being chewed on more than most because of the power of your songs to effect the whole group and the mobs don’t like that one bit. Our songs have massive taunting power so be wary. If you find yourself getting pounded quit playing your songs and stop attacking and let the warriors and other hybrids taunt. DON’T keep attacking and playing a song. In the lower levels Hymn of Restoration is a great group song in battle. The higher you go the more you will notice the mobs do way more damage and that heal song will taunt them like you wont believe so I advise not using it in battle unless you are using the all instrument attack because those songs will taunt anyway might as well heal.

Strategy Submitted on: Wednesday, March 01, 2000

https://web.archive.org/web/20010727...EW.ASP?ID=2092

PLAYER STRATEGY - BARD
A BARD ON THE PLANE OF HATE! - Wispas O'Tull --Minstrel of the 53rd Song (Assembly of Knowledge), The Tribunal

...

4.) Turn off your songs as the mob is being pulled into camp. Let the mob build a little bit of HATE. This has been fixed quite a bit when verant reduced the hate factor of our songs but its still an issue. Sometimes if your playing a party buffing song on the pull the mob will come straight to you..

Strategy Submitted on: Wednesday, March 01, 2000

https://web.archive.org/web/20010611...ensibard.shtml

00:00:59 Jun 11, 2001

Player Guide: Sensi Jadeleaf's Guide to Songweaving

Author: Sensi Jadeleaf (sensi-jadeleaf@home.com) Organization: Sensi Jadeleaf's Biography

...

So what do bards do with this broad range of skills? Anything that is needed. If your group is short on tanks, wade in there with the weapons and the heavy taunt songs like Chain. No enchanter? Make crowd control your duty. Snare if you don’t have a druid or ranger around, and do some DoT if you’re caster light. Lots of tanks in the party, make sure you keep those attack speed, strength and stamina songs in there. Change your songs as the combat changes, don’t just stick with the same 3 songs you started with. While your party might not be aware of what you’re doing when you’re there, they’ll sure be aware of you when you’re gone. I try to play the jack of all trades thing up as much as I can, as it’s our strength, both in combat and role-play. I learn as many languages as I can, I try to use blunt, piercing and slashing weapons.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020114...opicID=4.topic

Tinvaran
Unregistered User
(6/8/00 8:59:24 am)
Reply Selo's Consonant Chain song
This song has been a staple for me from the first level I got it till now (level 35). Compared to caster's root/snare, it does the following:

[1] Very high taunt, repeated use is almost as good as charm, I have pulled Mobs off wizzies and melee types with it, even when they have done far more damage than I ever could. This of course is a two-sided effect...usually when I stop using it, the melee types can taunt the mob off ME (unlike charm) ;-)

[2] Slows the mob's atk speed by up to 30%, this is often not noticeable in the heat of combat, and I wouldn't vouch for the actual percentage, but it DOES slow them down some. When used in conjunction with an atk speed song like Anthem [group] or Warsong [self], the difference is very noticeable.

[3] Reduces the **vectored** movement of a mob by about 60%. This means that when a mob flees, the movement in the direction of its motion is reduced by this much, that is why when the mob is reduced to about 1/3 of its hp, it virtually comes to a halt if 'chained'.

I have also noticed that this song has recently been 'nerfed' by Verant, and that it often no longer lasts the full 3 ticks that it used to, before Verant introuced the message that tells you when it wears off. Hopefully this is a bug which Verant will fix (when they get around to it). As for the atk speed debuff, it appears that it too has been reduced in order to make the level 50+ songs look more attractive.

Nestasia Dreamsong
Global user
(6/26/00 4:46:31 am)
Reply Selo's consonant chain
Its a SNARE song - Period

It DOES NOT SLOW ATTACKS. And it definetly doesn't slow attacks by 30%.

IF it did slow attacks then twisting it with Largos Binding would be an insane inbalance that would just make us combat commandos.

With Largo's Binding you can SEE it slow the attacker. Heck, use Largos Binding on a gargoyle and its wings flap slower too. But Selo's Constant Chain is strictly snare only.

I have NEVER NEVER taunted anything off a mob aggro'd on a wizard using chain. That is something I would like to see. The only way to get super aggro'd mobs off the casters in your group (if you are a bard) is to use charm. And I do it everytime with great success in the Frontier Mtns on Giants and Burynai alike.

Don't believe all the extra crap about Selo's Constant Chain. Its a *snare* plain and simple.

Nestasia Dreamsong <Dark Shadows>
Bard, 33rd Song
Tunare

https://web.archive.org/web/20001202...r/winesong.htm

11:28:00 Dec 02, 2000

Tank Bard
Goal: Take Damage
Songs: Selo's Consonant Chain, Psalm of Warmth, Solon's Siren Song
Weapons: Fast, light weight ones, you don't get double attack, your stamina is low. Use fine steel daggers if you must. I use a Bladed Thulian Claw (5/19) and a Dragoon's Dirk (6/23).

You're trying to keep the monster occupied, perhaps because the tanks are heavily injured, or because you know you have enough hps to tank it. The goal is to keep the monsters on top of you. Siren Song is the best choice for taunting, keep Psalm of Warmth running and weapons swinging and you'll be sure to keep taking damage (ick). Of course, until you get Siren Song, Consonant Chain is your best bet. At level 23, 3 singings of this song would pull anything on to me. By level 27 I can't taunt squat with it (which is nice in my opinion).

I used this once, and died for it, but because the healers were able to get enough mana for a heal for our tank while I finished off one of the nasties, 3 out of 4 lived, and a cleric resurrected me. If we weren't in a bad spot in the dungeon, I would have pulled out the horn and used Appalling Screech. As a bard, you have to know when NOT to use a song more than you need to know when to use a song.

I hope this helps all the bards out there,

Cleo Winesong
Minstrel of the Combine
The Rathe Server

https://web.archive.org/web/20001202...per/nafai1.htm

07:30:00 Dec 02, 2000

The Wood Elf Bard’s Essential Guide to Combat, Levels 1-9

Written by Nafai, Veeshan Server

...

Don’t use CoD when you don’t want everything that you noted in step one to attack you all at once

...

Same situation, but in a group: The monster is pummeling your friend and you haven’t even been hit once—drat! No Taunt! Never fear, CoD normally angers the enemy enough that it will focus on you, which in this case is a good thing.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020220...ass/bard.shtml

04:41:25 Feb 20, 2002

Another great bard song allows you to charm your opponent. By using this song you will be able to take that impossible to kill pull of three monsters and change it into just two while adding one to your party. This spell can be a lifesaver. Beware however that once charm breaks the monster will hate you like no other.

[mycoolrausch]

Hate scaling with HP is such a bizarre mechanic that could only come from the feverdream that is classic EQ.

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010211...ps/b_song.html

07:27:43 Feb 11, 2001

Lvl 23
(cp) Selo's Consonant
Chain Target Sing Highkeep
　Decreases movement speed and attack speed. The attack speed is about half, and the movement speed is a little faster than taking damage and running away just before

dying. If you actually use it on a dying enemy, it will stop. It's pretty useful music. If you use it on a rooted enemy, it will be overwritten and will be able to move. If you're

in a party with Caster, you have to be careful. Enemies using SoW have no effect and cannot be slowed. Since the Taunt performance is strong, it can also be used to tear

off enemies.

Lvl 25
(cp) Psalm of
Warmth Party String Qeynos
Kelethin
Erudin
　Increases Regist Cold, but it doesn't matter, it also has Infravision and Damage Shield effects. Damage Shield returned about 6 DMG at level 30. The taunt performance

is also low, and since it is cast on friends, it will not be resisted, so it is not bad to use.

Lvl 53
(cp) Song of Dawn
() Target wind 　
　Lower your Hate. It is the so-called Evade Song. It is good to put it after Charm. Apparently, Resist doesn't work, but I don't know if it worked or not because it's not

displayed. At this level, it hurts to hit, so it might be a good idea to put it in.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000229...ML/000332.html

Author Topic: Grouping with an Enchanter
Shani
Member
Posts: 79
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 02-08-2000 07:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Shani Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I am married to an enchanter and I do prefer to group with him. I found it easier to let him mez to take one at a time then to use DDD or COD. So I guess I am now a

tank Bard.
Any suggestions on what songs would be good in a group when always with an enchanter?
------------------
Shani Samsara
Bertoxx
Iridescent Voices

Milos Silvertune
unregistered posted 02-08-2000 09:56 AM Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I group a lot with an enchanter. After he does his job and mezzes them all, I pick the toughest one and start tanking on him with weapons while twisting Anthem, Hymn, and Melodic Binding. The Melodic Binding is AoE, but won't break the mez. A Bellow here or there won't hurt either.
If you let the mob get aggro on the Enchanter first, his animation will hop in to tank with you. You'll be able to pull him off the Enchanter quickly enough.
If you want, the Enchanter can cast Quickness on you, and you can then swap Anthem out for something else like a resistance song (especially if fighting casters)...but I usually just tell him to save his mana and I sing Anthem.

You didn't say what level you are though, so maybe some of these songs are available to you. However, theres only a few key things to keep in mind when grouping with an Enchanter. 1.) Their attack speed buffs are better than yours and they don't stack with yours. Pick which one you like best. 2.) Obviously avoid AoE damage songs. 3.) Use /assist to make sure you and any tanks are on the same foe..no sense disrupting the nice mezzes your Enchanter laid.

--------
Milos Silvertune
Traveling Minstrel, Drunkard, and Ladies Man of the 22nd Song.
Tribunal Server

Shani
Member
Posts: 79
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 02-08-2000 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shani Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I am 27 he is 29. I prefer his lvl 29 quickness over my anthem. Yes, I do use bind or chain. Also the psalm line does stack with his buffs. Then I will use jig just keep my stamina bar up. I avoid hymm during battle, because when they all wake up they will all be on me.
The occasional bellow almost feels like a waste for only 13 pts and almost always resists.
------------------
Shani Samsara
Bertoxx
Iridescent Voices

Moshkiae
Member
Posts: 155
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-08-2000 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Moshkiae Click Here to Email Moshkiae Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I'm printing this information. At 17, I tend to try and complete all casters, instead of competing with them. The only thing I have told most casters at this time, is to allow me to handle the HP's. But one good Enchanter will discuss with me what they would like to use ... and we can adapt. Just recently she buff'd us with Quickness and some Armor type, and all I had to do is play strings the whole time ... well waited a minute so they don't come aggro on me. But I did use Chords of Dissonance a couple of times so a Mob will not aggro on the Enchanter, which is important to remember, since they have less HP's than I do, if I remember right. All in all, with the Strings armed I can help an Enchanter stay alive pretty well, and no caster has ever died in any group that I have ever been on in 17 songs. We've lost one tank, a necro (family squabble non group related), and myself 3 times, because I ran wayyyyyy tooooooo late ... but because of that I have been able to save many a member in my group. But if in this span, with such a good group, I have gained two to three bubbles of experience, one death is no big deal.
This is the part of the game that MAKES the difference. If the two casters and Bard discuss things, and study their stuff they should always be in communication, so one does not interrupt the other, and instead augments each other's abilities.

Moshkiae

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...tml/11860.html

<b>Message ID:</b> 11860 <br/>
<b>Date:</b> Wed Dec 15 19:50:19 GMT 1999 <br/>
<b>Author:</b> Kimes, Dean W. <br/>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Song Taunting. <br/>
<br/><br/>
<div id="ygrps-yiv-1820846033">Speaking of Song taunting, I had an interesting experience last nite. I was<br/>
in North Karana watching for the gnome watchman to spawn when some idiot<br/>
decided an unannounced Hill Giant train into the stone bridge watchtower<br/>
would be a good idea. <br/>
<br/>
There were about a half dozen of us in there, 4 medding' casters a warrior<br/>
healing up, and me sitting and innocently singing Acellerando in the corner.<br/>
In tromps the HG, smashes its prey to the ground just as it reaches the exit<br/>
onto the bridge where it is immediately surrounded by guards. I'm standing<br/>
up at this point. <br/>
<br/>
The HG bashes two of the guards once each as they pummel it, Captain<br/>
Linarius alone is doing over 100 per hit. Everything seemed fine at this<br/>
point...<br/>
<br/>
Then Acellerando pulsed. The HG immediately ran over the 4 guards who had<br/>
at this point done over 600 hp's to it, past 2 of the medding casters and<br/>
the warrior who had just stood up, right to me. He immediately began<br/>
bashing my brains out. His first smack stunned my Accelerando off, so as I<br/>
started to run I tried starting it up again. The HG was happily bashing<br/>
guards again as I reached the exit back into the Karanas.<br/>
<br/>
Then Acellerando pulsed. The HG again immediately ran past the now 5<br/>
guards, past the 2 medding casters that hadn't awakened yet, and right to<br/>
little ole me. Smack, smack and forthwith I was down to a bubble. At this<br/>
point the guards had done nearly 1000 hp's to the HG, a caster had awakened<br/>
and nuked it with a couple of frost spirals and still it ignored all in<br/>
favor of me. Fortunately it didn't stun me again and I was able to outrun<br/>
it while it let the guards and assorted PC's beat the daylights out of it<br/>
from behind.<br/>
<br/>
After it was killed I got not less than 4 tells asking me how I managed to<br/>
taunt the HG so successfully that the group hunting near the bridge was able<br/>
to smack the heck out of it without risk. To my answers of I don't know,<br/>
guess he just hates lite jazz I was assaulted. Three of the /tell'ers<br/>
actually accused me of hiding an exploit that allowed me to taunt the HG.<br/>
Needless to say I politely asked them to /bug it so as to be sure I couldn't<br/>
get away with it again. They were not amused.<br/>
<br/>
I haven't had many examples of 'bard hate' or whatever we want to call it<br/>
lately, but this was sure pretty apparent as a bizarre hate list incident.<br/>
Only thing I can figure is that somehow the code is messed up to the point<br/>
that when a song pulses, the mobs consider it cast on everything within its<br/>
radius, whether it has an effect or not. A similar example happened once to<br/>
me in Misty Thicket. I was singing Accelerando when someone not in my group<br/>
decided to duel someone else also not in my group. I was standing near the<br/>
aggressor and as soon as my song pulsed, the guards uttered that horrid<br/>
statement about 'bards like you'. I fled instantly, but since I knew<br/>
neither I nor my groupmate who wasn't even in the zone, had attacked the<br/>
guards I feel sure some bug occurred. I /bugged it at the time. Has anyone<br/>
else had similar things happen to them when their song radius might have<br/>
included someone but did not actually affect them?<br/>
<br/>
Kitasi</div>

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...tml/14556.html

<b>Message ID:</b> 14556 <br/>
<b>Date:</b> Mon Feb 7 16:02:44 GMT 2000 <br/>
<b>Author:</b> Papa Legba <br/>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Song Taunt <br/>
<br/><br/>
<div id="ygrps-yiv-1498667386">Flash of light is a mega taunt, I call it my cleric taunt. I use it all<br/>
the time when i helping out lower lvls and sometimes in my regular when<br/>
I am trying to spread out the damage. (Our warrior does a great job of<br/>
taunting, and between him and our bard, I almost never even get nicked)<br/>
<br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; From: Benjamin Jerrad Segal &lt;<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:birdman@...">birdman@...</a>&gt;<br/>
&gt; <br/>
&gt; <br/>
&gt; A paladin friend scoffs whenever he hears about others who can't taunt<br/>
&gt; mobs, and swears by flash of light as a spell that taunts better than<br/>
&gt; taunt.<br/>
<br/>
</span></blockquote>-- <br/>
We now return to the non-stop rock.<br/>
<br/>
Matt DeBarger</div>

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...tml/11884.html

<b>Message ID:</b> 11884 <br/>
<b>Date:</b> Wed Dec 15 21:51:15 GMT 1999 <br/>
<b>Author:</b> kim@xxxxxxxxxx.xxxx <br/>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Song Taunting. <br/>
<br/><br/>
<div id="ygrps-yiv-2025027895">On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Cranfill, Wendy wrote:<br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt;<br/>
&gt; Well, I am going to have to say something in defense of the<br/>
&gt; Shaman here ...<br/>
<br/>
</span></blockquote>I think Harm's example was between obviously wrong requests<br/>
asked of the bard (7 point heal vs. 100+ point damage),<br/>
compared to debatable requests of the shaman. Whether you<br/>
malaise or slowdown first really does depend on the mob,<br/>
amount of mana, party makeup, etc. In general, I tend to<br/>
trust the judgement of the player who's played the class; but<br/>
then, I have a pretty sharp circle of friends that I group<br/>
with. Pickup groups OTOH tend to be frustrating at times.<br/>
<br/>
Btw, has anyone figured out which resist sonic bat stun works<br/>
against?<br/>
<br/>
<blockquote><span title="ireply"> &gt; For instance, I have had parties YELL at me for not using<br/>
&gt; Greater Heal right away. What they don't understand is that to do so is<br/>
&gt; almost always a death sentence for ME. And frankly, I'm tired of being the<br/>
&gt; sacrificial lamb. If you're not a healer, you can't understand the power<br/>
&gt; of a heal taunt - Bards can, cuz practically every song is as big of a<br/>
&gt; taunt as heal.<br/>
<br/>
</span></blockquote>Yeah. I have seen an enchanter turn a battle with one memory<br/>
blur. Taunt/damage management is an important part of the<br/>
battle that, sadly, most people neglect. The people who end<br/>
up dying when the taunts go wrong (bards, healers) seem to be<br/>
hyper-sensitive to it, while other classes are often<br/>
completely ignorant of it.<br/>
<br/>
Either playing a different class, or discussing tactics in<br/>
depth with someone who does, can really help you learn the dos<br/>
and don'ts. I've made some dumb-ass suggestions to other<br/>
players based on (IMHO reasonable) assumptions, only to have<br/>
the player tell me that no, that's not the way it works. You<br/>
feel stupid and embarassed for a bit, but you end up the<br/>
better player for it.<br/>
<br/>
--<br/>
John H. Kim<br/>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:kim@...">kim@...</a></div>

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After the 2003/2004 reduction to song aggro.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...ID=57198#57198

Sububer is not online. Last active: 2/28/2005 11:07:31 AM Sububer
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Total Posts: 13

Bard Aggro
Posted: Aug 17 04 7:05 PM
I am looking for some info on how aggro works for bards.

I'll start by sharing what I know about it:

Chants used to work, then their aggro was nerfed, so they are not nearly enough anymore to be able to kite for a group.

Some say to use rune songs to generate aggro, but I have had zero luck with this. Mobs nearly ignore me when I use our rune songs (Nilipus' and Shield of Songs). Maybe this was pre-aggro nerf too.

I read one post that suggested that bards can't hold aggro even with a Blade of Carnage (+700 hate proc) since they have an aggro mod applied to the class that lessens the hate generated - can anyone confirm this?

What it sounds like to me is that the class may have had a global aggro mod applied, but I am not sure - it could be a combination of misinformation and aggro nerfs to a few songs.

Specifically, what I'd like to know is this:

How was bard aggro nerfed?

Do bards have an aggro multiplier that affects everything?

If so, what is the multiplier?

What methods (if any) are still effective for holding aggro as a bard:
a. when kiting for a group?
b. when tanking?

Cheers,
-Sub
Sububer, 65 bard on Maelin Starpyre http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=997437

Moose is not online. Last active: 1/7/2005 3:18:52 PM Moose
Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Total Posts: 345

Re: Bard Aggro
Posted: Aug 24 04 11:07 AM
There was a time back on the old website for diva that I posted about the silent nerf with chants agro. Pre patch I was able to chant 4 dots and really had to be stupid to pull aggro off the pet. Day after patch, the end of charm killing...Nope not realy, but a wasted song slot, as now 4 dots would have the mob tearing you a new one while the pet was no longer a viable tank.

Bards being smarter than Sony went to the songbook and gave the finger to the nerf bat...memed the agro reduce song and with this new wasted slot had things the same as they allways had been. At the time I was angry, now I have to laugh...

Sony tries to flavour of the month fix, and back then it was deemed to powerfull to have songs with low aggro, as to abuse the pet becoming the tank..no risk clearing of places like the Velks Frenzie camp solo.

So we sing an extra song for about 2 years, and Sony decides :hey maybe we got it all wrong and we need to make it like it used to be....Those Bards are trying to use chants to be the tank!! Oh NO!!

Now as it stands we are back to having a hard time keeping aggro, but after clearing sebilis it is clear that my pets tank real nice again, and I sit back and 4 dot with no risk. (was here for the ss helmet, not experience)

What a stupid company...maybe the dude that decided 2 years ago to nerf or songs retirered only to have the next dude implement a nerf that puts things back to the way it used to be. haha nerfed the nerf.

AA's is kind of ridiculous as well, aa to deduce aggro song effects and new aa's to increase aggro effects??? Like buy 1 and not the other , or both and be mad you wasted the aa? The bard class has to be the most screwed with class, but in the end we laugh at them for wrecking the game in attempts to nerf a pretty much un-nerfable class. So we can solo real well...get over it. A bard with 800aa is still just a freaking bard. They charge 100aa for exhaultant bellow knowing this is like charging other classes 25. If it was such a great class there would be thousands of Bards, like those lamer Druids. Class balance is to have what we have, or it would be a very broken game. Give and take here.

Keep up the good work Sony...some day you will understand you are going after the wrong class.


Moose
I get paid to make decisions. Not write about them. 70-701

Grith is not online. Last active: 1/19/2005 6:09:12 PM Grith
Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Total Posts: 29

Re: Bard Aggro
Posted: Aug 26 04 3:40 PM
Had to laugh reading Moose's first post: Pre-nerf I only chanted while I wanted to hold aggro, take 3-5% off and keep up a full chant twist, had 2 rogues and a necro go full DPS mode without ever pulling aggro off me. Now, I charm one pet, and start chanting on the pet's target immediately, without ever getting aggro. If charm breaks, re-charm, run 2 circles while chanting, and the pet has aggro again.

Last night, was duoing with another bard... She chanted to 75% while I finished off another mob, then I snared and started to melee while she continued to chant... at 55%, I had aggro and had to use the Fear/snare technique to finish it.

So, Bard melee DPS aggro drastically outweighs chant aggro now.
Grith, Minstrel of Vah Shir Having spent 68 nights serenading from back alleys, while'st dodging 52 AA meetings.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050122...x?PostID=61421

Miniena is not online. Last active: 1/20/2005 10:21:27 PM Miniena
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Total Posts: 34

Bard Aggro
Posted: Sep 10 04 7:42 PM
hey all i was wondering, in a group situation when the tank goes down.. and all other melee class's go down.. is it possible for a bard to go tank? i can't seem to take or hold aggro at all!
Miniena Member of Heroes Luclin Server

Sirioh is not online. Last active: 11/28/2004 8:26:14 PM Sirioh
Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Total Posts: 328

Re: Bard Aggro
Posted: Sep 10 04 10:06 PM
Possible? As possible as it is for a penguin to start flying. It is already halfway there with the wings, but it is going to take a h*ll of a lot of work to breed flight back into them.

Same with the bards. Takes a h*ll of a lot of work to get and keep aggro from anyone, especially on raids when you're talking about tens of thousands of 'points' of aggro simply from heals, let nukes and dots.

If a plan resolves around a bard being main tank, precautions need to be taken - the bard needs appropriate tools (high damage weapons relatively speaking, maybe some aggro procs [and I mean +hate, stuns and other forms of aggro seem to be affected by the global hate modifier bards are subject to], maybe some sort of instant click like a snare gland or stun totem) and everyone else needs to be much more controlled in their aggro output.
Hunter Sirioh
Impresario Arafein Sinofei
Xev

Moose is not online. Last active: 1/7/2005 3:18:52 PM Moose
Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Total Posts: 345

Re: Bard Aggro
Posted: Sep 12 04 5:56 PM
We can take the damage np most of the time, but it is real tuff to hold agro. The way it stands, getting a mez to land pre tank death might be the better solution. Or snare and let the wizzys/nukers ping pong it to death.

Moose
I get paid to make decisions. Not write about them. 70-701

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...x?PostID=46680

barbai is not online. Last active: 1/19/2005 11:01:55 AM barbai
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Total Posts: 1036

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 2:54 PM
As well you are slightly correct in that soe programed bards to generate less agro with songs this also includeds our procs.

A war using that same blade will generate much more agro from the proc alone then we would.
“Allow my song to heal your wounds, clear your mind, and hasten your blade”

lanolar is not online. Last active: 12/24/2004 10:03:03 AM lanolar
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Total Posts: 198

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 3:23 PM
Quote:
As well you are slightly correct in that soe programed bards to generate less agro with songs this also includeds our procs.


Our songs generate less agro, that was done in beta. Procs? Ummm no. Same as everyone else.

I get just as much agro from a BOC as a warrior does. My gf plays a warrior and I have had her and me both melee mobs with nobody tuanting. Agro always bounced back and forth as we procced. I have tanks MANY MANY times in ldon using my BoC to keep agro. I have overagroed many times from my old EoE going off and getting one too many stuns in.

Snasty is correct in that its not what it once was because other class's DPS has gone through the roof, while ours has taken a crap. So you add in the DPS factor and its harder to tell.
Lanolar
Crimson Tempest

https://web.archive.org/web/20040207.../434552p1.html

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What You Need To Do:
Send your funniest, prettiest, or best EQ screenshot to lepidus@vaultnetwork.com with "LDoN Contest" as your subject.
Include the following info: station name, email address, and first and last name.

Deadline:
Tuesday, August 26th at 11:59PM EST.

When will you know?
Winners will be informed via email on August 27th
The full list will also be posted on the main page of the EverQuest Vault.
I look forward to your participation in this! I cannot accept entries sent to any address save lepidus@vaultnetwork.com, so be sure you send them there and be sure to have the correct info line.

Also, remember you can always talk about Lost Dungeons on our EQ General Board.

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...ID=46680#47516

Steppy is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 8:03:48 PM Steppy
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Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Total Posts: 1682

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 5:15 PM
The devs have said that they did not code specific effects as bard effects for purposes of hate generation. ALL effects cast by a bard, song, proc, right-click or whatever

have reduced agro simply because of the class we are -- this was the easy way to code it and it is no surprise Sony took that way out. I think this came up about two or

three Fan Faires ago when a dev admitted they took the easy way out on bard agro coding.
Steppy Astravox
Code of Silence
Luclin Server

lanolar is not online. Last active: 12/24/2004 10:03:03 AM lanolar
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Total Posts: 198

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 7:01 PM
Hmm I remember the exact opposite at the fan fair. Bard songs have reduced agro. If its not coded to be a song, it has normal agro.
Lanolar
Crimson Tempest

Astuce999 is not online. Last active: 1/12/2005 7:18:42 PM Astuce999
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Total Posts: 146

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 18 04 5:19 AM

BoC works for bards. It gives 700 hate.

Hooked So`Shar works for bards. It gives 250 hate.

I am not aware of any other weapon with a direct hate proc
that can be weilded by bards.

The confusion with bard code and aggro will not die tomorrow.

There are 2 kinds of hate. Direct and indirect.

Direct hate comes in 2 forms; damage (whether you hurting it
or you healing someone it has aggro on), and procs/discs/etc
that add directly to hate.

Indirect hate is basically everything else that people do during
a fight that mobs will notice. So slows, stuns, snares, mez'es,
charms, fear, debuffs, hastes, buffs, etc.

Bards are coded so that anything that creates indirect hate
will only give a fraction of that indirect hate when it is
associated with a bard.

So my slow is only a fraction of the aggro a shaman slow is.

So my snare is only a fraction of the aggro a druid snare is.

So my mez is only a fraction of the aggro an enchanter mez is.

So my stun is only a fraction of the aggro a paladin stun is.

This includes spells, procs, potions, and items.

When it comes to direct hate, we're on the same code as all
the other classes. The problem comes with the fact that it is
fairly difficult for us to have access to that direct hate. We
do not possess any ability that adds directly to hate without
dealing damage, barring the two aforementioned weapons, and
even then, we can't use those to build hate on a mez'ed mob
so that when it's woken up it won't eat the chanter. Let's
just say that it's not our melee dps that will keep us on top of
the hate list either, nor our healing prowess.

The reason people mention chant dots as a solution to hold
aggro is a bit more subtle than I'm sure most of them realize.
Furthermore, the advantage to clicking in a drum to receive
the full modified effect of the chant in the middle of a melee
swing helps to increase the hate twofold as explained below.

A chant dot has 2 components. One is damage (direct hate),
and the other is a debuff component (indirect hate). So even
though it is not the highest dps in the game, it will outaggro
other people with the same or greater dps because of the
indirect hate from the debuff.

Hope this clears it up for you,

'Stuce
[link=www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=602255][image noborder]http://www.ichuu.com/Tomonari/pics/Astuceubersig.gif[/image][/link][br]

[link=www.ichuu.com/Tomonari/][image noborder]http://www.ichuu.com/Tomonari/pics/eottag.gif[/image][/link]

Steppy is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 8:03:48 PM Steppy
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Total Posts: 1682

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 18 04 10:48 AM
Astuce - excellent explanation! That really illustrates things better and I appreciate you taking the time to write it out. So I was correctly remembering the stuff about even procs being coded differently when a bard does it, but the direct vs. indirect hate throws another dimension onto it that makes a lot of sense.
Steppy Astravox
Code of Silence
Luclin Server

lanolar is not online. Last active: 12/24/2004 10:03:03 AM lanolar
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Total Posts: 198

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 19 04 12:38 AM
Aye thanks for posting that good explanation. I was remembering them saying hate procs work the same for us.
Lanolar
Crimson Tempest

Additional comments that suggest LDoN was the expansion that reduced bard aggro...

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...x?PostID=40355

cujomatic is not online. Last active: 1/11/2005 6:13:25 PM cujomatic
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Total Posts: 577

Re: Keeping aggro...
Posted: May 17 04 6:11 PM
You are gonna start that "should bards tank" argument again, I know it.

What level?

As far as I know, the only close to 'snap' aggro grabbers we have are sit and charm. An sit can be iffy, charm is limited or unavailable for some levels. Everything else will

not grab aggro for you from someone that has hard aggro. You need to build aggro over time with a planned twist.

If you have time to build agro through a four or six song twist prior to casters/ melee engaging, then 4 dots, 3 dots plus asnare/slow. Shield of songs will get you aggro, but

usually when you don't want it. It can't reliably grab aggro, in my experience. But its usfull in a slow build as well.

When I two box a bard/cleric...I use chant/slow and ae's if appropriate and charm to build aggro before the cleric heals/nukes/stuns.

This was discussed in some depth 6 months or so ago, but I don't know if the thread survived the move.

Mez and close distance with melee and chant/slow twist will sometimes grab aggro if the old aggro hold moves off really quickly.

Bottom line is most bard songs are coded for low aggro...thats not gonna help you when you want it.

Eladuel is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 1:51:19 PM Eladuel
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Total Posts: 8

Re: Keeping aggro...
Posted: May 18 04 1:36 AM
Bards have a wierd code where the things we do cause agro just at a reduced rate, I figure it was to fix the problems with bards dying to fast when twisting. The problem

with this is it also affects our procs so weopons that proc stun and slow won't be nearly effective if another class were using. Other then using the generic chants, charms,

and sitting which will create a bit of agro not sure if it will be enough to say keep a BoT giant on you when a healer is ch'ing the only other path I know of is to get a

weopon that procs a set ammount of hate like enraging blow aka BoC... so start saving your pennies or find a guild who is still willing to do AoW for a bard LOL

alerka is not online. Last active: 7/20/2004 4:58:10 AM alerka
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Total Posts: 226

Re: Keeping aggro...
Posted: May 20 04 9:28 PM
The "Katta's Song of Sword Dancing" or whatever its called gives you a proc and increases your chances to proc. From what I know procs are one of the biggest aggros.

Returning to the first comment at the top...

https://web.archive.org/web/20050119...ID=46680#47516

Steppy is not online. Last active: 1/18/2005 8:03:48 PM Steppy
Forum Moderator
Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Total Posts: 1682

Re: BoC.....-does- it work for us?
Posted: Jun 17 04 5:15 PM
The devs have said that they did not code specific effects as bard effects for purposes of hate generation. ALL effects cast by a bard, song, proc, right-click or whatever

have reduced agro simply because of the class we are -- this was the easy way to code it and it is no surprise Sony took that way out. I think this came up about two or

three Fan Faires ago when a dev admitted they took the easy way out on bard agro coding.
Steppy Astravox
Code of Silence
Luclin Server

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/soe_fan_faire

2004
New Orleans Louisiana, October 27-30, 2004

2003
Chicago Illinois, September 26-28, 2003
Las Vegas Nevada, March 28-30, 2003

2002
San Francisco California, November 8-9, 2002
Boston Massachusetts, August 2-3, 2002
Seattle Washington, April 19-20, 2002
Dallas Texas, January 25-26, 2002

https://web.archive.org/web/20030108...rder=0&thold=0

Fan Faire discussion (Nov 8-9)
Posted by Bicrius | on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:03 PM
EverQuest Event
It's less than one month until the next Fan Faire, which is being held in San Francisco. Find out who's going and discuss plans! The thread is here. Let's continue Luclin's good record for attendance and excessive drinking at the Fan Faires. ^_^

https://web.archive.org/web/20021211...aire/index.jsp

The 2002 EverQuest San Francisco Fan Faire was held on November 8-9 at the Sony Metreon and the San Francisco Marriott. Check out an attendee’s diary with photos, plus a cool movie from this exciting event

No transcripts appear to be available and so far the only video recordings of SOE Fan Faires from around that time were held in Orlando and Vegas, the latter of which might have been the one referred to by the poster.

[Dolalin]

That bit about the entire class having reduced aggro across the board is a great find. I totally believe Verant would do that.

[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010710...rc0-2000.shtml

News Archive: January 2000

Thursday [ January 20 ]

Gordon explains on Bard's getting beat down.
Community News [ 1:35 AM PST ] - Alethal
Found this at the Everquest Gameplay Forum.
Why is that bards are made to be the super taunter of any given group?
I can easily draw many examples from my experience, here are just a few of them:

In any given dungeon, when our puller go get some mobs, they will always target and head for me if I'm singing any song, buffing or offensive.

In PoF, I was instant killed 3 times in a row by Cazic Thule's Touch of Death, simply because the puller is in our group. Three times in a row, and each time I was the second one in group to be instant killed after the puller was killed (he managed to get CT to aggro on him). I was singing mana and heal song miles away at camp.

In dragon raids, the giants always head for the Bards if they are singing any song when the puller returns with some aggro'd mobs. From a technical point of view, in a full group, Bards are actually 'buffing' (or healing) a group of 6 people (self included) with their song, around 10 to 15 times a minute, and all those 'buffing' somehow get add up to the hate list counter on mobs, and that's why bards are always on most mobs' top 3 spot in their hate lists.

However from gameplay point of view, this is not balanced. Bards doesn't have as high AC as tanks, they have half the hitpoints of tanks (even less than Monks and Rogues at times), so the question is, Why make bards the super taunter of all classes?

I'm sure this is not something intended for bards, and I really hope it'll get fixed as soon as possible.

Most of your examples reference that the mob jumps on you when the "Puller" is returning. I can certainly see that happening since the puller has done little-to-no damage to the creature he is pulling. All he knows is that he can't get to the person who he is most mad at, so he might as well eat the person who's buffing the person he is mad at.

But it is balanced. It might not be *fair*, but it's balanced. No other class has the ability to buff an entire party like that. Doing that has to have it's downside, one of which is, you may get eaten. So, you don't have high AC or HP, that's all part of that downside. When you get in a group you have to make sure that they can either kill something so fast it doesn't have a chance to kill you, or you have to be in there with some tanks who can get it off of you.

Sounds reasonble, yes?

-Gordon

Tuesday [ January 25 ]

Bard Taunt To Be Decreased
Community News [ 4:23 PM PST ] - Ruri Kagato
Abashi made another comment regarding Bard Taunt on this thread on the Official EverQuest Forums:
After reviewing this thread as well as some others on the other boards, and chatting with some of our inhouse people that play bards (we have several of those), we've decided to decrease the taunt factor of the bard songs. This is not going to lead to a drastic change to how the bard class is played, as bards need to know when to stop singing, but it should definatly be noticible.

The problem centers around how a creatures hate-list works. Without going into detail, creatures also hate people who cast beneficial spells on people they hate. Since bards do this roughly every 6-12 seconds, it can get a bit dangerous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Gordon