NEW Emulator Server

[Lyrith]

Wow some of these last posts really need a TL;DR. I read every post up til most of page 5. I just wanted to come here and say how much I LOVED POP, I believe it was the best expansion in any MMORPG that I have ever played. I really hurt mages more than anyone.

Druids could make the same amount of money just sitting in PoK buffing people. It made a central hub for a community to hang out in and talk/etc. Most importantly people could get buffs here from big Mass Group Buffs, or they could just make a couple druid friends and get buffed up then Book there way to where ever they wanted to go level. The druids could sit in PoK earning money while waiting for raids to happen.

As an enchanter on live I made SOOO much money sitting here casting KEI it was stupid. It gave every caster a place to go knowing they could get a SoW/Clarity and get back to leveling or doing what they wanted to do.

The raids where amazing, the flagging system was awesome. Going back and re-flagging new guildies was awesome. People really had to earn their places in raid content. The bottle necks were created by content instead of by guilds locking others out of it. Only cock blocks I recall was Rallos Zek in Plane of War, main guilds would still kill him for loot/keep flags on lock down. The fights in Plane of Earth/Water were so massive and time consuming it took dedicated guilds to get into Time. Once a guild has time that was their priority.

Alt's weren't typically flagged and destroying other guilds raid content, people had to be focused and prepared on their mains.

End rant as my post is now too long just like the ones above it.

TL;DR - I love PoP and I hope we get to see it one day in any form as long as raid content is in it and 100% accurate with flag system.

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Lyrith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TL;DR - I love PoP and I hope we get to see it one day in any form as long as raid content is in it and 100% accurate with flag system.

I loved it too. I actually loved Luclin, but PoP was amazing. I hope they consider it with the 'custom content' after Velious at some point in the future. Removing all of the easy transport methods would make the biggest difference. You need some way to get to PoK without the need of a wizard or Druid, but make it as painful as the current boats.

[Lyrith]

Originally Posted by moklianne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but make it as painful as the current boats.

Needs to be 2-3x worse than boats imho... lol

And I don't care for the bazaar and all that cats on the moon stuff. Some neat and fun zones like Ssra. But getting into Vex Thal, FML...

[Millburn]

My only issue I had with both Luclin and PoP was the bazaar and books. Everything else was so solid. I just wish they would have anticipated how those two things really deteriorated the culture that had grown naturally from the beginning of the game.

[Leeyuuduu]

I was ok with the moon and PoP, but not the cats, not the PoK, and definitely not the new character models (for most races). It would be very interesting to see what the GMs would pick and choose in the name of the classic IF post-Velious were ever considered.

[Gwence]

Originally Posted by Aussie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PoP raiding was great, however I think the mechanics of Omens of War where the best IMO.

MPG trials, making a whole group of people ducking at the same time etc in the "simon says" trial is something you just dont see in these easy day modern MMO's

the simon says trial could be totally cheese'd by fighting on the walls in the arena area, and most guilds did it this way

Im curious what your resume is when it comes to "easy day mmo's"

I think EQ is easily one of the best games ever made but I would not say that is because of it's raid structure. Dont get me wrong, EQ raids were tons of fun and the game easily has the best itemization I've ever experienced, but EQ raids have always been able to be carried to success by a small amount of good players. In this way I would rate EQ raids as not really all that involved and rather easy. Most classes in an EQ raid just stand in one spot and click a button every couple of seconds, this is true even in later expansions like Omens of War.

I don't have any WoW experience, but I have a considerable amount of Swtor experience (which is pretty much WoW with lightsabers). I believe most people make there judgements of modern day mmo end games prematurely due to the fact that most of the people will play through the easiest version of a raid, which WoW and Swtor offer to appease the masses of players that just are not very good, and never experience the hard or nightmare versions of these raids.

I dont know how WoW does it but Swtor has 3 difficulty version of each of there raids, and not even 5% of the subscription population is capable of completing the hardest versions. EQ was never anywhere near that kind of difficulty.

[Kika Maslyaka]

+1 for WoW has some insane difficulty raids specially for 20+ size raids, which will have you running all over the place each player doing his own thing or you will wipe in seconds.
Most EQ1 raids are tank and spank, only made difficult by need of 5+ clerics chain healing the tank and bringing shit load of resist gear.
EQ1 did started getting some very complex raids starting with DoDH.

[Yonkec]

Originally Posted by Gwence [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the simon says trial could be totally cheese'd by fighting on the walls in the arena area, and most guilds did it this way

Im curious what your resume is when it comes to "easy day mmo's"

I think EQ is easily one of the best games ever made but I would not say that is because of it's raid structure. Dont get me wrong, EQ raids were tons of fun and the game easily has the best itemization I've ever experienced, but EQ raids have always been able to be carried to success by a small amount of good players. In this way I would rate EQ raids as not really all that involved and rather easy. Most classes in an EQ raid just stand in one spot and click a button every couple of seconds, this is true even in later expansions like Omens of War.

I don't have any WoW experience, but I have a considerable amount of Swtor experience (which is pretty much WoW with lightsabers). I believe most people make there judgements of modern day mmo end games prematurely due to the fact that most of the people will play through the easiest version of a raid, which WoW and Swtor offer to appease the masses of players that just are not very good, and never experience the hard or nightmare versions of these raids.

I dont know how WoW does it but Swtor has 3 difficulty version of each of there raids, and not even 5% of the subscription population is capable of completing the hardest versions. EQ was never anywhere near that kind of difficulty.

I think you are having trouble recalling just how long it took some servers to get past content. Sure most guilds beat content in time, but how many guilds across all the servers actually beat the content within the timeframe that it was intended to be? Exactly how many guilds killed AoW prior to Luclin's release? Id wager that is is reasonably close to whatever figure out are making up regarding WoW and SWtOR.

Also, cut EQ some slack, designing raid content in 1999 and 2000s absolutely NOT comparable to designing raid content in 2005 and 2008 and 2013. WoW puts out expansions how often? I think they understand that their content needs to be as painful and insane as possible to keep people from throwing poo at them during the buildup to the next expansions release. Hence the "free" content patches that are just them holding back part of each expansion. There is nothing to fucking do in WoW outside of dailies, raids, and going into other game's communities and telling them how much they suck.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Yonkec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is nothing to fucking do in WoW outside of dailies, raids, and going into other game's communities and telling them how much they suck.

this I can agree on. Outside of raids, once you hit max level (which is relatively easy in wow) there is nothing to do solo.

I am also upset with Blizz to dramatically reduce amount of XP needed to get to max level with each expansion - even if you determined to play through all the content (quests and missions etc), by the time you get to 20+ the quests will go green and ultra easy before you get to them, so you don't even get to enjoy the quests at the level of difficulty they were meant to be done cause you leveling so fast, you out level a zone before you do even half of the quests there.

For example - by the time you finish all quests in Barrens, you are lev 24, and starting quests in Ahsenvale already green. By the time you finish Ashenvale you are 35, running around laying waste to lev 28 mobs in packs. Gets boring quick, so you have no choice but to skip the content to get some challenge.

[Gwence]

Originally Posted by Yonkec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are having trouble recalling just how long it took some servers to get past content. Sure most guilds beat content in time, but how many guilds across all the servers actually beat the content within the timeframe that it was intended to be? Exactly how many guilds killed AoW prior to Luclin's release? Id wager that is is reasonably close to whatever figure out are making up regarding WoW and SWtOR.

Also, cut EQ some slack, designing raid content in 1999 and 2000s absolutely NOT comparable to designing raid content in 2005 and 2008 and 2013. WoW puts out expansions how often? I think they understand that their content needs to be as painful and insane as possible to keep people from throwing poo at them during the buildup to the next expansions release. Hence the "free" content patches that are just them holding back part of each expansion. There is nothing to fucking do in WoW outside of dailies, raids, and going into other game's communities and telling them how much they suck.

the aow comparison isnt valid, I dont think any guild killed it legitimately prior to AA's, but not for lack of ability, it was a total R.N.G. fight and still a complete tank and spank everyone else just stand there and hit 1 button type of fight, just because they made the boss have a strong possibility to 1 shot any tank of that era makes that fight a poor design imo not so much a well planned difficult fight.

The toughest part of most EQ raids is managing lag and the players in your own guild since often times there will be 50-60++.

Also my argument wasnt that EQ raids arent difficult, just not as difficult as modern MMO's and also that they are not anywhere near as interactive as raids in modern day MMO's either.