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Old 01-24-2020, 06:52 AM
commongood commongood is offline
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Hey all,

I apologize in advance if this was better served as a post under the bug forum, but I wasn't sure so I put it here. If someone with moderator authority deems it to be moved then that's cool.

So I have a question in general about faction and in particular about the faction "Minions of Scale".

My first question is, is a faction a faction regardless of zone and mob? So if we have Faction X. And let's say when I encounter a mob that is on Faction X it cons "scowls" to me. Then I do a quest that yields +2000 faction with Faction X. Then I con that mob and I now con "kindly". Let's then say I move to another zone where mobs are also on Faction X. Will I then always con the same as I did to the other mob if no other faction is involved?

The reason for my question is this:

According to the wiki when you kill a trash mob in Skyfire Mountains you lose 30 faction with:

-Ring of Scale (RoS)
-Minions of Scale (MoS)

(http://wiki.project1999.com/A_shadow_drake)

The same is, according the wiki, true of trash inside VP (http://wiki.project1999.com/Guardian_wurm)

I have never taken a negative faction hit with either RoS og MoS on my enchanter. When I go to Skyfire Mountains and con a trash mob (except for the devourers which seem on no faction and kos to all) I con "threateningly". When I cast Collaboration I then con "dubiously".

But when I go into VP and con a similar trash mob (a Guardian Wurm in both zones) in there I con "scowls".

Does this mean that mobs are on different levels of the same faction in Skyfire compared to VP? Or does it mean that mobs inside VP have a "scowls" default setting - much like, say, a Seafury Cyclops or some other baseline "evil" mob?

It's confusing because I would think it would be the same for Skyfire and VP.

Any insights would be great.
  #2  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:07 PM
Veccini Veccini is offline
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The zone could have it's own modifier. Or maybe the ones in VP are on MoS while the ones in SF are on RoS. Go to Castle Mistmoore and slaughter a bunch of stuff to raise RoS and find out.
  #3  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:50 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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The most important thing to understand about the wiki and faction is that while you can use which faction a mob gives, or the +/-, the specific numbers are way off ... to the point of being all but worthless.

They're based on some unclassic source that P99 maybe used in year one or something (but Nilbog has long since made the numbers classic). Unfortunately, because there are whole lot of those numbers in the wiki, removing them is difficult.

Second, every mob only has one faction. It might give multiple negative factions when you kill it, but it only has one that it uses to determine if it likes you.

However, mobs don't just look at that faction to decide whether or not they like you. They also can have modifiers for race (which is why illusion spells can help NPCs like you better) and religion.
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Last edited by loramin; 01-24-2020 at 12:52 PM..
  #4  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:02 PM
aspomwell aspomwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
However, mobs don't just look at that faction to decide whether or not they like you. They also can have modifiers for race (which is why illusion spells can help NPCs like you better) and religion.
Woohoo! I get to tell Loramin to look at the wiki!

According to http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mec...tem_and_Levels the following things can all affect your final 'faction score':

A modifier for your god
A modifier for your race
A modifier for your class
A modifier for your own faction changing efforts
A modifier that is spell based
A modifier that is NPC specific
A zone modifier

more details at the link...
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:11 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Heh, you got me: class-based faction differences aren't very common, but yes they do exist, as do faction spells [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But in my defense, the context of the post neither was relevant, and I covered all the rest except:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspomwell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
A modifier for your own faction changing efforts
...
A modifier that is NPC specific
A zone modifier
I'm not sure all of that is true or even makes sense. I'm no expert, but I really thought all NPCs on ___ faction worked the same way (modulo the other factors): I don't think say "an ice goblin" will behave differently than (say) "an ice goblin priest". Anyone thinking they do might not have been aware of factors like class or religion impacting things.

The zone thing is weird: maybe "behind the scenes" it's implemented that way(?), but from our end all we can tell is what individual NPCs do, as NPCs are never in two zones at once (or if they are, they work like two different NPCs). In all the cases I know, if a halfling in Rivervale is on a faction, and so is one in Misty Thicket, they'll both work the same (again modulo stuff like religion ... but again, I'm not an expert).

And what does "a modifier for your own faction changing efforts" even mean ... isn't that just your faction value with the faction?

I <3 the wiki, but some of the older pages like that have weird stuff in them, and even seasoned wiki editors like me are afraid to correct it if we're not experts on the topic ... but that doesn't mean it's all perfectly accurate just because it's been there so long either. What would be really great is if somone who was an expert could put a few minutes into making such pages clearer, and preferably include lots of examples.
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Last edited by loramin; 01-24-2020 at 03:25 PM..
  #6  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:15 PM
aspomwell aspomwell is offline
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I only knew that because I happened to read through that page just yesterday. On a side note, thanks for all the wiki help you provide. I use that thing constantly and it makes me sound like I know what I'm talking about in /gu!
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Zipps - 51 HLF Druid <Castle>
Lykosor - 49 DE Necro <Castle>
Aspom - 12 HEF Ranger <Castle>
Slyng - 31 HEF Bard <Castle>
Flecrad - 21 DE Enchanter <Castle>
Lykos - 43 HIE Mage <Castle>
Ribkage - 17 GNM Boneknight <Castle>
  #7  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:26 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspomwell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I only knew that because I happened to read through that page just yesterday. On a side note, thanks for all the wiki help you provide. I use that thing constantly and it makes me sound like I know what I'm talking about in /gu!
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I'm just one of many wiki editors, but you're welcome for my small contribution to it.
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