Why did the Kael FTE rules change?

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Pretzelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like you need to take a mental health break. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lot of folks should and employment. sorry the cares act ran out.

velious has been farmed for 5 years, most of yall lost.

Sorry you dont got warder loot.

[Gatordash]

Originally Posted by Dman2701 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its funny you keep talking about training in ntov, but all the trains lately have been from Freedom AG, seems you guys are the problem

lol weren't you the riot monk who trained AG at the ramp up to trips when setting up for Vulak on Aug 14? That was like 1.5 weeks ago

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Pretzelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like you need to take a mental health break. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

? i'm at like 25% RA.. and if i never got another piece of raid loot, i'd be content with my characters. They're pretty good. I need to take a mental health break because i'm highlighting the short comings of the current situation in ToV?

ooookay dude thanks for the input i'll consider it.

[Fammaden]

Most everything 2chainz has said makes a lot of sense, but at the same time you have to wonder if there's an ulterior motive since I assume they believe they have all the best racers/FTE'rs in Freedom.

[condap99]

Originally Posted by Gatordash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol weren't you the riot monk who trained AG at the ramp up to trips when setting up for Vulak on Aug 14? That was like 1.5 weeks ago

He's an active puller for them. In train-away meta, anyone who steps up is going to occasionally be at fault.

Ofcourse, I would also expect him to know this instead of trying to insinuate that it's a one sided thing.

[condap99]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most everything 2chainz has said makes a lot of sense, but at the same time you have to wonder if there's an ulterior motive since I assume they believe they have all the best racers/FTE'rs in Freedom.

The ulterior motive questioning should be for people who are arguing for rooted dragons, so that they aren't pullable (just like every. other. single. raid. target.)

Preserving zero competition kills sure sounds like the ulterior motive I would be questioning.

My argument is pretty straight-forward:

- Competing at the spawn point, in NTOV, is unplayable. It's a game of chicken for who will do the more outlandish engage, with more adds and more trains away that rewards exactly 1 metric: how big is your force.

- Not Naggy, Not Vox. Not Hate. Not Sky. Not Trak. Not Chardok Royals. Not Talendor. Not VS. Not VP. Not KT. Not Dain. Not Yeli. Not Tunare. NOWHERE else is this the game of EverQuest. Nowhere else is the single determining factor the number of players you bring to an encounter. And yet, we've let it define inner ring TOV for over a year.

- The simplest answer is to go back to unrooted dragons. Remove all non classic code. Unscrew up the screw up. Ofcourse, that would require admitting that it was a terrible idea that has done nothing but permanently ruin the server (an argument that isn't even worth having because it's so obviously true).

- The next best thing is changing where we compete. The competition should be in determining who gets the mob, at spawn via a race to FTE and engage, just like every other mob.

- There are literally hundreds of camera angles, and plenty of narratives. Any combination could paint a guild in a nefarious light when you're competing on top of each other in north. It's hard enough dissecting fraps when theres a coth mage and 2 FTErs in north, and you're trying to figure out why trains are acting a certain way - but when you have 225 people all casting, sitting, training mobs around - it's a disaster. Having to concede the best mob in the game because there are 50 people standing next to a spawn, and RNG having it aggro 'your' guild member instead of 'their' guild member is absurd, and only points to how stupid the system currently is.

[Dman2701]

Please show fraps of me training anyone, because it sure wasn't me.
But I have lots and lots of fraps of you guys training well everyone over the weekend

[kaizersoze]

Originally Posted by condap99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Not Naggy, Not Vox. Not Hate. Not Sky. Not Trak. Not Chardok Royals. Not Talendor. Not VS. Not VP. Not KT. Not Dain. Not Yeli. Not Tunare. NOWHERE else is this the game of EverQuest. Nowhere else is the single determining factor the number of players you bring to an encounter. And yet, we've let it define inner ring TOV for over a year.

- The simplest answer is to go back to unrooted dragons. Remove all non classic code. Unscrew up the screw up. Ofcourse, that would require admitting that it was a terrible idea that has done nothing but permanently ruin the server (an argument that isn't even worth having because it's so obviously true).

- The next best thing is changing where we compete. The competition should be in determining who gets the mob, at spawn via a race to FTE and engage, just like every other mob.

- There are literally hundreds of camera angles, and plenty of narratives. Any combination could paint a guild in a nefarious light when you're competing on top of each other in north. It's hard enough dissecting fraps when theres a coth mage and 2 FTErs in north, and you're trying to figure out why trains are acting a certain way - but when you have 225 people all casting, sitting, training mobs around - it's a disaster. Having to concede the best mob in the game because there are 50 people standing next to a spawn, and RNG having it aggro 'your' guild member instead of 'their' guild member is absurd, and only points to how stupid the system currently is.

Sorry nobody wants to join freedom and listen to people like you, detoxx and furoar in voice. Idk when Azure Guard is going to realize you need them way more than they need you, but I'm sure forcing them into all your 2x concessions is definitely putting a wedge in that relationship.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but at the same time you have to wonder if there's an ulterior motive since I assume they believe they have all the best racers/FTE'rs in Freedom.

This is a fair point, as you're correct that I believe Freedom has the best Racers/FTErs. I'd go as far as to say that most other guilds believe the same thing. Two things about that though.

1. Racing in ToV is much more of a crapshoot than racing in Kael. Sometimes, when racing for a far target, such as koi/ladym/vulak/trips/twins, being clearly ahead of everyone else isn't necessarily a good thing. Watching old FTE videos, there were plenty, if not a majority of the time where the person who won FTE was in 2nd/3rd most of the race. It's all fun and games until DA wears off and you get one rounded. Racing in ToV is as much about not being killed on the way up as it is being the fastest.

2. Racing guarantees you a chance at killing the mob. But it does not guarantee that you kill it. If we win a Vulak FTE at 5am, and can't muster the people to get it down in 2 hours, we don't get the mob. As is, if Vulak spawns at 5am, Riot is getting the mob, virtually 0 chance it's being killed by anyone else.

The bottom line is, I could have 60 of the best raiders this server ever had, all in best in slot or near best in slot gear. (Hypothetically speaking) Yet we would still have 0 chance at killing Vulak, unless we either got trained and they conceded... or pulled off a miracle. This is not classic nor is it competitive. What's the minimum number of people a guild needs to kill Vulak in a competitive environment? Too damn high is the answer. Before rooted dragons, the number was 40-50.


To expand on to Conda's points, I very much understand why Rog rooted them. Sirken was forced out, Braknar ninja posted a thread about how ToV was on a permanent rotation because he very quickly learned how annoying it was to deal with 30 fraps an ordeal, with two sides vehemently declaring that the other side is 100% at fault. (This is all assumption) Then Braknar quit the project because Rogean said no to a permanent rotation (because that's an awful idea) and because Rog and nilbog "Don't care about it and won't do anything about it so why should I" So he felt like something drastic needed to be done. So he did it.

Sadly, the whole time, all that needed to be done was for the guilds to work together without jumping down each other throats. Training mobs to zoneline was a fun, and very unique version of raiding that didn't exist in any MMO ever. A truly competitive PVE environment.With adrenaline pumping action, and an insanely high skill gap. So if there IS a mess right now, it's us (the players) faults.

So, I disagree it was a terrible idea. I understand it. However.... it did ruin raiding in some ways. Even if we wanted to ignore the fact that rooting the dragons led to this server becoming a one guild ordeal.......... Red hasn't killed vulak once since. I'm almost positive. In fact, raiding is completely dead over there now.

Most interesting though, is that even if ToV was reverted back to March 2019, it wouldn't necessarily be the same as then. You can't push to cancel casting anymore! So while i can't speak intelligently about whether or not that is classic, or if it's over tuned as is (I really don't know at all) you'd probably have to run one hell of a Mana Sieve chain to stop mobs gating.

I do know that if we could move the mobs a little bit (I.E not rooted) that hypothetical 60 man raid comprised of the best raiders on p99 would certainly have a chance at Vulak. We'd be able to engage vulak away from his guards, yet close enough to where he wouldn't gate, even if zone line pulls were no longer viable. My point is there WOULD be wiggle room other than "lol bring more people" or "It's YOUR LEADERSHIPS FAULT FOR NOT FORMING ALLIANCES" or whatever weirdos say.

But, with zero changes made to how the dragons in ToV behave, I can't think of a better answer than, make them a foot race.

[Drakborn]

Originally Posted by condap99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ulterior motive questioning should be for people who are arguing for rooted dragons, so that they aren't pullable (just like every. other. single. raid. target.)

Preserving zero competition kills sure sounds like the ulterior motive I would be questioning.

My argument is pretty straight-forward:

- Competing at the spawn point, in NTOV, is unplayable. It's a game of chicken for who will do the more outlandish engage, with more adds and more trains away that rewards exactly 1 metric: how big is your force.

- Not Naggy, Not Vox. Not Hate. Not Sky. Not Trak. Not Chardok Royals. Not Talendor. Not VS. Not VP. Not KT. Not Dain. Not Yeli. Not Tunare. NOWHERE else is this the game of EverQuest. Nowhere else is the single determining factor the number of players you bring to an encounter. And yet, we've let it define inner ring TOV for over a year.

- The simplest answer is to go back to unrooted dragons. Remove all non classic code. Unscrew up the screw up. Ofcourse, that would require admitting that it was a terrible idea that has done nothing but permanently ruin the server (an argument that isn't even worth having because it's so obviously true).

- The next best thing is changing where we compete. The competition should be in determining who gets the mob, at spawn via a race to FTE and engage, just like every other mob.

- There are literally hundreds of camera angles, and plenty of narratives. Any combination could paint a guild in a nefarious light when you're competing on top of each other in north. It's hard enough dissecting fraps when theres a coth mage and 2 FTErs in north, and you're trying to figure out why trains are acting a certain way - but when you have 225 people all casting, sitting, training mobs around - it's a disaster. Having to concede the best mob in the game because there are 50 people standing next to a spawn, and RNG having it aggro 'your' guild member instead of 'their' guild member is absurd, and only points to how stupid the system currently is.

tl;dr I cant win with this rule set, please accommodate me.