FSI is overrated garb

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I think a lot of people who "bash" FSI don't have level 60 characters, or if they do they have some regret about their race.

As I keep saying over and over, FSI is best for 60 Shamans with Torpor. On the tanking side, FSI is better than Regeneration when you are in a group/raid, since Regeneration often times isn't doing much due to you having a healer.

For Shamans without Torpor, or soloing tanks, Regeneration is better.

This advice is misleading. FSI is best for "Soloing" 60 Shamans with Torpor, which I don't think anyone is trying to dispute.

For duos/trios/groups/raids FSI is basically useless on a shaman. The extra regen will prove more useful than an ultra rare situation where FSI might come in handy with a clutch slow in a group situation. And the extra regen means more mana which is what is needed in these scenarios.

This is why the shaman racial debate is so situational. You cannot say one race is best for all situations vs something like an iksar monk.

[Allishia]

I can confirm dark elf is best race for war. /nod

[Encroaching Death]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I think a lot of people who "bash" FSI

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This advice is misleading. FSI is best for "Soloing" 60 Shamans with Torpor, which I don't think anyone is trying to dispute.

For duos/trios/groups/raids FSI is basically useless on a shaman. The extra regen will prove more useful than an ultra rare situation where FSI might come in handy with a clutch slow in a group situation. And the extra regen means more mana which is what is needed in these scenarios.

This is why the shaman racial debate is so situational. You cannot say one race is best for all situations vs something like an iksar monk.

It isn't misleading. Regeneration is typically a very small bonus in groups because you have a healer. If you want to argue a non-standard duo like a Warrior/Rogue, then sure, Regeneration would still be better. But I think it is pretty safe to assume most people are going to be making somewhat "normal" groups, which will have a healer. Even when Shaman is the healer, you are saving WAY more HP (mana) by simply having a tank, which means you aren't taking the damage yourself, and you don't need to spend mana on DPS spells.

You can easily say one racial is the best, because it fits what most players do. Most Shamans like to solo with their Shamans, because Shamans have great solo capability. It is the rare case that Shamans mostly group/raid. This means the best racial for Shamans is the one best suited for soloing.

It isn't a very good argument to say "nothing can ever be the best, because there is always one fringe case where it isn't".

[Jimjam]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I think the irony is that on a tank with regen, FSI is better because they can tackle slightly harder xp mobs, whereas on a tank with FSI regen is better as FSI is less needed on weaker mobs

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I think the irony is that on a tank with regen, FSI is better because they can tackle slightly harder xp mobs, whereas on a tank with FSI regen is better as FSI is less needed on weaker mobs

Yeah that is basically what I am saying. When you are soloing for XP to get to level 60, Regeneration is better than FSI because you are typically killing things 10+ levels below you (such as your LDC example). You want more kills per hour, and Regeneration enables that. Once you are in a group scenario (tackling harder XP mobs), then FSI is better because you already have a healer enabling your group to kill a ton of stuff per hour.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It isn't misleading. Regeneration is typically a very small bonus in groups because you have a healer. If you want to argue a non-standard duo like a Warrior/Rogue, then sure, Regeneration would still be better. But I think it is pretty safe to assume most people are going to be making somewhat "normal" groups, which will have a healer. Even when Shaman is the healer, you are saving WAY more HP (mana) by simply having a tank, which means you aren't taking the damage yourself, and you don't need to spend mana on DPS spells.

You can easily say one racial is the best, because it fits what most players do. Most Shamans like to solo with their Shamans, because Shamans have great solo capability. It is the rare case that Shamans mostly group/raid. This means the best racial for Shamans is the one best suited for soloing.

It isn't a very good argument to say "nothing can ever be the best, because there is always one fringe case where it isn't".

This is a subjective statement, unless you have data to prove otherwise. There are plenty of shamans at 60 who mostly duo/trio/group/raid. Shamans shine the most in duo's/trios where you can really stretch the limits, and these are most of the shamans I know. If you want to really be a solo god, play an Enchanter. I think you just specifically like to spend more time soloing at 60, but shouldn't be applied to shaman play as a whole.

You’re also arguing that the min max for shamans is soloing which by design is incorrect. Shamans are a support class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a subjective statement, unless you have data to prove otherwise. There are plenty of shamans at 60 who mostly duo/trio/group/raid. Shamans shine the most in duo's/trios where you can really stretch the limits, and these are most of the shamans I know. If you want to really be a solo god, play an Enchanter. I think you just specifically like to spend more time soloing at 60, but shouldn't be applied to shaman play as a whole.

I didn't say there aren't Shamans who don't solo[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I said most Shamans like to solo in addition to grouping/raiding. You don't need data to understand this point. Shamans are one of the few classes that can solo/group/raid equally well across all level ranges. Same with Enchanter. Most players aren't going to spend 60k+ on Torpor without also wanting to solo. A lot of people don't have multiple level 60 characters, so one enticing reason to make a Shaman or Enchanter is you can have one level 60 that can do everything.

In duo/group situations there are plenty of times where FSI can be useful on a Shaman, since you may need to off-tank something. I rarely use Fungi Tunic/Regrowth anymore in solo or group situations, and I don't lose any time. If losing 30 hp/tick isn't a problem, losing 8 hp/tick isn't a problem.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re also arguing that the min max for shamans is soloing which by design is incorrect. Shamans are a support class.

Design is irrelevant to how the class actually plays. Shamans can solo better than most classes, even though they are a support class. By your logic Rogues should be good soloers, since they are designed as a DPS class. I am pretty sure Enchanters were also supposed to be support classes by design.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say there aren't Shamans who don't solo[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I said most Shamans like to solo in addition to grouping/raiding. You don't need data to understand this point. Shamans are one of the few classes that can solo/group/raid equally well across all level ranges. Same with Enchanter. Most players aren't going to spend 60k+ on Torpor without also wanting to solo. A lot of people don't have multiple level 60 characters, so one enticing reason to make a Shaman or Enchanter is you can have one level 60 that can do everything.

In duo/group situations there are plenty of times where FSI can be useful on a Shaman, since you may need to off-tank something. I rarely use Fungi Tunic/Regrowth anymore in solo or group situations, and I don't lose any time. If losing 30 hp/tick isn't a problem, losing 8 hp/tick isn't a problem.



Design is irrelevant to how the class actually plays. Shamans can solo better than most classes, even though they are a support class. By your logic Rogues should be good soloers, since they are designed as a DPS class. I am pretty sure Enchanters were also supposed to be support classes by design.

988

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say there aren't Shamans who don't solo[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I said most Shamans like to solo in addition to grouping/raiding. You don't need data to understand this point. Shamans are one of the few classes that can solo/group/raid equally well across all level ranges. Same with Enchanter. Most players aren't going to spend 60k+ on Torpor without also wanting to solo. A lot of people don't have multiple level 60 characters, so one enticing reason to make a Shaman or Enchanter is you can have one level 60 that can do everything.

In duo/group situations there are plenty of times where FSI can be useful on a Shaman, since you may need to off-tank something. I rarely use Fungi Tunic/Regrowth anymore in solo or group situations, and I don't lose any time. If losing 30 hp/tick isn't a problem, losing 8 hp/tick isn't a problem.



Design is irrelevant to how the class actually plays. Shamans can solo better than most classes, even though they are a support class. By your logic Rogues should be good soloers, since they are designed as a DPS class. I am pretty sure Enchanters were also supposed to be support classes by design.

Ah shifting goalposts again I see.

Now you are claiming Shamans like to solo in addition to grouping/raiding. Before you were saying shamans spend most of their time soloing instead of mostly grouping/raiding. Which one is it?

Just because shamans can solo, doesn't mean it is what they do the majority of the time. The mere fact that you admit they do other things means we have no idea what they spend the most time doing, but yet you argue in favor of FSI which is 99% a solo benefit when it comes to shamans.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Design is irrelevant to how the class actually plays. Shamans can solo better than most classes, even though they are a support class. By your logic Rogues should be good soloers, since they are designed as a DPS class. I am pretty sure Enchanters were also supposed to be support classes by design.

This is a really bad analogy. Rogues being a dps class has nothing to do with soloing. Shamans are a support class, and that is where they shine the most. Doesn't mean they can't do other things, but you're arguing in favor of a solo shaman, but this isn't where you see their most potential. This is expected, because they were designed as a support class. Similarily, while rogues can solo, a class solely designed as a dps class will not shine the most soloing. We also know things are broke with Enchanters and likely not classic here, such as channeling & how reliable charm is. Same with monks, as they were eventually nerfed in Luclin.