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  #1  
Old 11-16-2009, 09:47 AM
Bahleted Bahleted is offline
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Default Organizing Melee Fix (Programmers Read)

Okay so after reading the various posts about the melee issues its apparent that issue is beyond being fixed in the near future by our server devs.

Not because they don't want to but simply because they don't have the resources and/or manpower. How do we fix this?

Take this post as a call to arms to all the programmers that want to help fix it and be a big part of the community. Help make our server we enjoy a better one. I myself lack the skill neccesary to fix the issue but I can do my part by organizing and motivate people that do and are willing to invest a little bit of time doing so.

Wouldn't you want to sit down in the aftermath of the game with your melee knowing that you made it possible for melee classes to be desired by groups again? Especially before kunark is introduced?

Let's band together to do so.

If anyone is interested please respond and post here if we get a few people willing to donate a couple of hours and share the info with each other I'm willing to bet we can have this fixed in no time.
  #2  
Old 11-16-2009, 12:26 PM
Takon Takon is offline
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While not a bad idea in theory, and obviously created with good intentions, this post assumes a few things:

1) Programmers want to do more programming when they get home from work
2) Programmers have time to devote to such a venture
3) These programmers know c++ and perl
4) (Big one) The Devs are willing to let programmers into their source code

I considered offering my services, but I don't fit into 2 or 3. I doubt it would take long to catch on to c++ as I've at least seen the language and know other c-based languages, but who knows with Perl.

I also would be surprised if the Devs were willing to let others work on the source code without at least a bit of background information.

That being said; with developer approval, and after talking to one about it I could see myself lending a couple hours here and there as needed.
  #3  
Old 11-16-2009, 12:35 PM
Tollen Tollen is offline
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Devs have offered to send the source code for this in the patch thread. I too don't have any programing background but my brother does and he used to play EQ in the 1999's with me so Ill give him a call and see if he would be up for it.

C++ I know he does, not sure about perl
  #4  
Old 11-16-2009, 12:57 PM
Bahleted Bahleted is offline
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I know my post was brief and not very explainative it was mearly an intro to getting something started.

I'm asking for help from people who do have the knowledge and time to help fix it or at least provide a productive medium in where this can be accomplished. I fully understand people might not have the time to contribute I'm not expecting anything from anyone who doesn't have that time.

Aeolwind pretty much implied he would be willing to share code with people willing to try due to lack of manpower. Hopefully he wasn't just being sarcastic perhaps he can respond to this post with some guidance or insite to clarify what he would want in that person. Also possibly sticky the post so it can gain some ground.

I figured if people got to working on it and sharing ideas and progess here for the others willing to help it would help actually getting it done instead of just wasting time complaining about it.

My intentions are an attempt to turn all that manpower into productivity.

I appreciate your interest
  #5  
Old 11-16-2009, 01:56 PM
Summit Summit is offline
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I'd be very interested in working on the project. I originally came to these boards hoping to join the development team but when I couldn't find any information regarding who to contact I assumed they were not looking for new team members.

I am good with C++ although haven't used Perl much. Have gotten an EQEmu server running in the past if that is helpful at all. Graduating with a BSc in computer science next month.
  #6  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:00 PM
Galahad Galahad is offline
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I highly doubt the problems they have have anything to do with actual coding errors. I think it more has to do with errors in the formulas they are (or are not) using. Things like: what chance does having 75 block give you to actually block an attack, etc.

On the logic side they are probably missing info like: what is the appropriate distribution of the DIs over certain attack/defense values. The math behind this stuff isn't too difficult, and if they've come as far as they have on their own I doubt they'd have much trouble implementing it.

The big thing I think they are missing is reliable data. Until they get reliable data, what's the point of fixing anything? Replace incorrect mechanics with more incorrect mechanics?
  #7  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:29 PM
guineapig guineapig is offline
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Here is a very long post somebody wrote about parsed defense statistics.

http://beastlords.org/index.php?topic=1944.0;wap2

There is a lot of stuff out there like this, you just have to weed through the ones that involve AA's and other things that obviously were not in Classic.

One interesting thing to note is that with all the threads about getting hit so often people keep referring to their AC but not their agility.

The link mentions that AC deals with how much damage you take but has nothing to do with avoidance. Agility is the only stat that effects how often you get hit. I'm sure everybody already knows this but nobody seems to be posting how much agility they have when they give examples.
  #8  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:30 PM
Dolalin Dolalin is offline
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Here's a good summary of the attack/defense system in EQ:

http://eq.knowledgepit.org/wiki/Melee_attacks

So, first we need to define the problem. At lower levels it seems mobs are hitting for more than they should, or rather, the DI is rolling high compared to what it 'ought' to be, given a player's AC/def. Max hits by mobs land too often, min hits too seldom.

Next task should be quantifying this. This involves parsing, obviously, and is much easier for someone with GM powers to do, since they can change levels / summon gear easily, so I'd recommend doing it on a test server.

Multiple classes.
Levels 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50.
AC: Naked, +100, +200....to softcap.
Mob: low green, blue, even, yellow, high red.
500 swings of combat or so.
We can pick a few values of Level/AC/Mob, and test the effect of agi, and see if it's in-line with expectations.

That should be set up in a nice table, organized by DI and max/min hit %. It could probably be done in a day or two.

(This is bringing back memories of my job in QA...)

Next, knowing the state of things, we should compare this to classic, or even live-EQ parses if no classic ones are available, to see what needs to be adjusted.

Adjustments can be as simple as tweaking AC/ATK values on mobs and players, or as thorough as a new attack/defence formula for the lower levels. Once the evidence is in hand, a decision has to be made here, and I guess that's where our friendly devs come in.
Last edited by Dolalin; 11-16-2009 at 02:35 PM..
  #9  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:39 PM
guineapig guineapig is offline
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So what sort, if any parser are we allowed to use on this server?
can a GM or dev post some recommendations?

I don't want anyone breaking any rules by using extra software that would get them banned and honestly, I don't know enough about them myself to pick.
  #10  
Old 11-16-2009, 02:40 PM
Dolalin Dolalin is offline
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Uh parsing just means turning /log on, and analyzing that logfile later. There's no actual "software" being run.
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