Bard melee

[Selene]

This question was probably asked many times already, but I heard that bards don't really solo with melee and are more spell-casters. If I like going toe-to-toe against mobs, is bard a poor choice?

I guess I'm asking bard players if they play their bard with any significant reliance on melee. I know they mostly charm or swam kite, though fear kiting can be an option. Is it slow to fear kite though, at the higher levels?

Is a ranger much faster in killing things melee than a bard? Because I did notice bards have better defense skill caps than rangers and of course have nice slows on command.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Selene [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This question was probably asked many times already, but I heard that bards don't really solo with melee and are more spell-casters. If I like going toe-to-toe against mobs, is bard a poor choice?

I guess I'm asking bard players if they play their bard with any significant reliance on melee. I know they mostly charm or swam kite, though fear kiting can be an option. Is it slow to fear kite though, at the higher levels?

Is a ranger much faster in killing things melee than a bard? Because I did notice bards have better defense skill caps than rangers and of course have nice slows on command.

I prefer this playstyle too, even though I know it's inferior. I don't know if I would call it a poor choice, but it's not what they do best, even though I see Bards as hybrids like Rangers and Knights, not a Caster class.

Most Bards will swarm kite because it's extremely fast and any deaths you accrue from a mistake are overshadowed by the sheer rate at which you grind out EXP. Fear kiting is safer but much more tedious.

Pound for pound, using the Rangers damage shields, Dot'S and nukes, the Ranger will kill faster than the Bard since the Bards DoT's will be tied to their instrument and be fairly weak if they're just singing without the Epic, and Bards don't get Double Attack which is a big hit to their melee DPS, but a Ranger without Fungi will also face more downtime than a Bard because of the damage they're taking in melee, while the Bard can fear kite with little risk to them (Rangers can only fear kite animals, which becomes irrelevant around level 50). Rangers cannot Swarm Kite either, so Bards will still outpace them in the later levels. More mobs per hour, less downtime.

[Saisu]

Bards are the jack-of-all-trades. Yes you can melee, but you’re almost always better off doing something else.

Yes while leveling you twist Fear, Slow, Self-haste, +1 other song and slowly whittle down their health… or you could cast Charm and have two Hill Giants wail on each other for like 80 damage a hit.

Treat melee as a possible strategy in your bag of tricks - but think of bards more as mobile spell casters and you’ll probably get more enjoyment.

For solo melee your better options are Monk/Ranger for offense-based, or Paladin/Shadow Knight for defense-based.

[Videri]

Rangers are considered DPS; Bards aren't. They're capable of doing great damage, usually via swarm kiting or charm shenanigans, but their direct single-target damage doesn't really compare to "DPS" classes such as rogues and rangers and even wizards (burst).

But I'd imagine bards have greater sustain aka less downtime, than almost any other class when soloing. When using their best solo techniques, they don't even take damage. So, once you kill this mob(s), you just start it back up again (unless you have to pee).

Fear-kiting on a bard is indeed pretty slow. You're twisting Slow, Fear, self-haste (or group haste if duoing with a rogue or something), and maybe a DOT; and meleeing...it's not great. But hey, you can always duo.

I keep finding myself saying, "Why are people trying to solo so much?" EQ is a team game. Yes, yes, kids, jobs, AFK at a moment's notice, but still. Once in a while you'll be able to do a nice group.

[Snaggles]

In the lower levels I’m sure it’s easier.

In the 50’s with really good gear, I expect they can go to-to-toe better (albeit slower) than most rangers. Plus if things get sketchy, you often can mez and heal back up faster than most npcs will regen. A ranger will root/snare and bow as a backup plan.

My bard is only 58 with crummy gear. I’ve charmed and fear-kite-dotted the entire time. I’ve only melee’d in tight quarters when I might need to mez/heal…usually lower level weaker targets. I killed that drake in Skyshrine for the key at 56 and it turned into one helluva marathon.

With better gear like a Lute of the Howler, Drums of the Beast, epic and/or tunare/koi dagger, Singing Steel BP, things would be WAY different. Plus I’m sure a better bard player than me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] .

In a group the bard’s priority will be twisting songs and maybe mezzing/charming (if no ench) with melee usually very low priority unless you have the epic. In outdoor zones a ranger will be pulling (like the bard) but mainly meleeing with some infrequent buffing and occasional snaring.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In outdoor zones a ranger will be pulling (like the bard) but mainly meleeing with some infrequent buffing and occasional snaring.

So Rangers never hit a point where their bow DPS outparses their melee DPS? Their archery AA's in PoP must've been way stronger than I assumed.

[Toxigen]

If you're not into swarming (won't blame you), the best is by charming and using drum dots / fear / snare.

Charm a mob, send it in, drum dot target. When charm breaks, charm the mob w/ the dots on it, drum dot your old charm pet (now target).

Rinse / repeat til both low, use combo of snares / fears / dots to finish both off.

If this is too tough, just get the hang of yo-yo (if in a tight spot) fear / snare kiting a single w/ drum dots.

Bard melee before epic is notoriously bad.

[Selene]

Lol I had no idea that bards fear kite without melee but use their DoT songs instead. So melee is rarely used if ever it seems.

With regards to charming, with all those charm breaks every 18 seconds, it seems like doing it indoors where there are tight quarters, I'm bound to get hit every time the charm breaks. Outdoors i get that selo's and snare will mitigate that risk but indoors charming seems not so safe.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Selene [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol I had no idea that bards fear kite without melee but use their DoT songs instead. So melee is rarely used if ever it seems.

With regards to charming, with all those charm breaks every 18 seconds, it seems like doing it indoors where there are tight quarters, I'm bound to get hit every time the charm breaks. Outdoors i get that selo's and snare will mitigate that risk but indoors charming seems not so safe.

It's very powerful indoors, especially the earlier charm which costs no mana and lasts 4 ticks instead of 3. The latter one costs mana & only lasts 3 ticks so you will go oom fast. For this reason bards make the best dungeon crawlers until lvl 50 or so. Having a fungi helps mitigate some of the damage you take indoors, but if you have the skill they have all the tools needed.

Bard songs per level

You can plug in diff mods and see just how much damage your dots will do with instruments, bard melee can't really touch this until you get epic with an 18 instrument mod which means you can melee and get pretty good dot damage which is why bards really shouldn't bother meleeing after lvl 30 or so until they get epic.

[Vivitron]

As far as I can remember my significant solo xp came from pbaoe kiting and the charm method Tox outlines above. Although I think I usually mixed in a little melee to finish the runners. When playing the bard, instead of comparing my melee solo to solo rangers I'm comparing it to those methods.

Running around at 60 seeing what I can solo and what I can farm I've used melee a fair amount. All the gear and level 60 spells help. For example the 60 dot+slow lasts a minute, so you can remove slow from the regular twist and replace it with another dot, netting two dots. Prime hand instruments let you swap them in right as songs land so you can melee and do full dot damage. Lute of the Howler haste, especially added with either a deep sea or epic proc, lets you have spell haste without singing it, making room for another dot if you had been singing haste or just better melee dps if you hadn't.

It also seemed to make sense to melee some in the majority of groups I was in, but that judgment can be sensitive to group makeup / gear / era.