P99 is a Meritocracy, not a Democracy

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The original EQ devs put variance into the game (not on day 1 launch, but later) to combat socking. It's not enough deterrance for a time-locked server like P99.

That being said, GMs also didn't create and police rotations on live either. It was something more akin to rolltation on most servers. You did have to show up with a force, pixels weren't just handed out to guilds for existing.

They 100% did police rotations on some servers. Some servers didn't though. I think it came down to the GM's discretion and each server handled it differently. They acknowledged very early on that socking was a problem and not what they wanted to encourage. If P99 style behavior was a thing back in those days I'd bet my life savings they would have stepped in to change it in some fashion. It was a bit more tame back then. The fact that it's been allowed to continue like it has for as long as it has is kind of disgusting honestly.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instances weren't added until LDoN, the original designers were absolutely not working on the game at that time. Brad was working on Vanguard, which did not have instances. It only had sharding for a single dungeon in the game. EQ did intend to have some form of competition, hence why the "whoever does the most damage gets the exp/loot" was in the game. They could have simply had it as whichever group hits a MOB first automatically gets the reward, it's not like they didn't know about it, Everquest was based on MUD's, which had already tried all kinds of things regarding this issue.

"Sharding" was the best they could do at the time. They openly said instances would have been done sooner had it not been a technical limitation. Regarding most dmg for loot. The options are basically first to tag (FTE) or most dmg (DPS race) and neither option is great but short of instances or GM enforced rotations it's about the best they could do. Given the options I think DPS race mechanic is better than FTE but neither is ideal. At the end of the day one thing is EXTREMELY obvious to me. The kind of behavior exhibited on P99 from it's launch til now is NOT the intention and never has been the intention and to think otherwise is nothing short of delusion. To look at P99 raid scene and go "Ahh yes Brad's vision" is fucking insanity.

[Nexii]

GMs enforced rotations on some servers but I don't think they created them ever. Big difference. The GMs would have done something more akin to P99's idea of a player agreement which is then enforced. Draft week is just another flavor of this.

Most servers did first in force (rolltation) from what I can find as it's the closest in-line with the Play Nice Policy vision.

I doubt any classic servers did DPS or FTE. Possible but unlikely.

Norrath would have been designed very differently if sharding was possible at the time. You wouldn't have raid bosses within leveling zones, which was a lot of the charm of EQ. Possible that they could have made it work though.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone is allowed their opinion. However, I don't share my opinions to the rest of the server, then force them to conform by decree . That is blatant totalitarianism.

It could be described as totalitarianism to an extent if staff imposed restrictions across the board and started banning/suspending parts of the community for disagreeing with their decisions. But guild leaders deliberating and eventually unifying to speak on behalf of their members is an example of representative democracy. You and your former guild leaders/speakers are in the minority and have been dating back to before the original, much smaller guild was renamed.

Originally Posted by SabtagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I, and those whom agree with me, are not "forcing" our playstyle upon the rest of server. This is the natural evolution of what would have been if the classic era was time-locked.

In a way, you are forcing your playstyle on the rest of the server because your playstyle directly conflicts with, disputes, or flat out disregards the rules. By breaking those rules and denying responsibility for each offense, you force other PVE guilds to choose between engaging in PVP behavior or losing out altogether because abiding by the rules puts them at a disadvantage (or opting out of endgame altogether).

Also, even without custom content, blue is not a time-locked server. It has evolved over the years, making some non-classic changes out of necessity thanks in large part to those who have a playstyle similar to your own. It's reasonable to expect more changes in the future, or at least consider it as a possibility given the server's history.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe competition is too and the proof is in the pudding here on P99 Blue.

Scripting, autofiring, training, file altering, ruleslawyering, killing one conceding two. Blood pudding?

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that artificial limiting of interaction between people/guilds is the main culprit.

The PVP server has very few artificial limits, ideal for competitive diehards.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my opinion, this interaction is the premiere magical component of any MMO - The human spirit.

It also creates opportunities for pretty dehumanizing behavior. Being on call for hours at a time only to be screamed at for one simple mistake doesn't exactly showcase the magic of the human spirit.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one should ever limit interaction in an MMO and for the life of me, I don't understand why you can't see this or respect this golden rule. This is a hill I'm willing to die on.

PVE limits interaction and it was heavily favored even by beta testers, so much so that those who wanted PVP questioned whether dedicated servers would even be included for it since they were beginning to see features like the PK tagging system. If one of two players doesn't turn in their PK book, /duel, or /guildwar, there is no PVP outside of arenas, none of which have hills to die on. Also, the golden rule might have something to do with why people can't respect limitless interaction as a golden rule.

Originally Posted by SantagarBrax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Leadership from all of Guilds participating in the Draft attempted to steamroll this through in a few short weeks without giving people the opportunity contemplate it, come to a determination, let alone voice their conclusions to their leaders. That's super shady. I imagine most guild members weren't even aware of this unless they happened to stumble into the UN discord to see it occurring.

In what world would guild leaders not jump at the chance to tell their members? Put up a poll and see how long it takes for the majority of players to contemplate this change and vote.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instances weren't added until LDoN, the original designers were absolutely not working on the game at that time. Brad was working on Vanguard, which did not have instances. It only had sharding for a single dungeon in the game. EQ did intend to have some form of competition, hence why the "whoever does the most damage gets the exp/loot" was in the game. They could have simply had it as whichever group hits a MOB first automatically gets the reward, it's not like they didn't know about it, Everquest was based on MUD's, which had already tried all kinds of things regarding this issue.

Plane of TimeB became instances shortly after release.

There were a lot of ‘instance like’ events in PoP too. You could see they were working towards instances for a while.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plane of TimeB became instances shortly after release.

There were a lot of ‘instance like’ events in PoP too. You could see they were working towards instances for a while.

That works in Nexii's favor because Planes of Power wasn't the original team. Most of the biggest names--McQuaid and his buddies--left in 2001 during Luclin's development. Those events are I believe also related to Verant giving way to Sony Online around the same time. The internal turmoil the studio was going through during that period is probably much of the reason why the Luclin expansion was such a mess.

McQuaid was notoriously hostile to instancing: See Vanguard and Pantheon. I don't recall him being overly obsessed with open-world competition in the P99 sense, though. He posted on various forums a great deal and my recollection is he was mostly focused on community cohesion and simulating a world and he tended to think players were going to behave themselves better than they really do in practice.

----------------------------------------------------

I don't think the above applies all that much to P1999 however. For better or worse P99 has always maintained its own culture distinct from that of the original game.

Danth

[Jimjam]

Every day we stray further from Brad.

[Praxcthius]

Question. How many of you actually played from the start of eq live ? Now how many of you played at least 5 servers? If not you have no clue what went on each server. There were not multiple guilds taking on vox or naggy at the onset of their introduction. There were not multiple guilds engaging fear hate and sky at their inception. There were not multiple guilds doing Kunark dragons Chardonnay king queen vs vp at its release. Insert each new expansion with same results until pop. Most of you talk out of your ass like you are the know all of eq. You are not. At best you were that weekend dnd player who experienced pick up dnd like groups when you played live. Maybe a year 2 or more you started to raid and then you thought you knew it all. You didn’t.

Klazdaxthun

[Praxcthius]

Chardok* not Chardonnay ��

[SantagarBrax]

Now we're having a healthy discussion. I like it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pro Tip: Notice all of those conducting personal attacks...those are the true "toxic" players on this server.

https://imgur.com/WRTyKUn

https://imgur.com/ZDrSn5Q

Compare the subscription numbers to the Expansion timeline releases. After Luclin and PoP launch, subscriptions were trending upward with a first ever decrease in July '03. Just like the real world economy, policies and implementations take some time before the effects are visible and felt.

What happened to cause subscriptions to begin decreasing in July '03 then permanently continue the trend by the fall of '04?

Management mandating an expansion drop in 4 months with Legacy of Ykesha, which was a terrible expansion that brought a few quality of life improvements/spells that we were all going to get later on down the road anyways. It was a pure money grab and we all knew it at the time. Then, LDoN brought the first Instancing to the masses. No longer were gamers required to have any downtime to socialize and get to know one another via interaction (Brad's Vision), and it became a soulless experience going through those missions. LFG Tool was implemented as well. What made it worse was LDoN had some of the best augments so everyone was forced to do it. We were all forced into a non-interactive state and it was a terrible experience. Gates of Discord bombed severely due to it being rushed to Live with broken content, overpowered mobs, and the initial level cap presuming to increase to 70 and instead kept to the level 65 cap. In addition, gamers were burnt out (just as the devs were) on sharding to experience gameplay: VP, ST, Vex Thal, PoP. We needed a break too and realized SOE didn't give a damn about the player base, they just wanted "more more more".

Subscriptions rebounded around June '04. I believe it was in anticipation of Omens of War and to see if the path forward would change for the better, but in the end it was just more of the same. In Feb. '05, Dragons of Norrath launched and it was met with mixed reactions across the board. Lower level and casual guilds couldn't truly participate in the content and top tiered raiding guilds felt it was a continuation of heading down the wrong path, yet again. Cool concept, improper implementation both regarding content and timeline release.

Subscription numbers plummeted from OoW launch date in Sept. '04 - Sept. '05 by over HALF. SOE chose their path, the same path Atarii and many companies that followed chose, quantity over quality. They never recovered from this blunder.

In conclusion.. I've always believed that both the player base and dev's needed a break from continuous new expansions drops. Take a year or two off from beginning to make any expansions and go back to polish the broken/overlooked aspects of classic and all other expansions up through PoP. Keep in mind that the most "hardcore" players only had 1-3 alts and none were really max level nor fit for raiding. My father was a hardcore casual player, with every single class in the game, yet none above lvl 50 by PoP era. There was time to take a breath/break and it either else wasn't recognized or plainly ignored.

[SantagarBrax]

And of course, instancing/rotations.