Fist of Nature...Again

[Rellapse40]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're going to get their nuts rustled when Lord Yelinak absolutely bodies them if they go for a day 1 kill? Then again maybe there's enough clerics to set up a half second CH rotations or something I dunno lol.

hardest part about yelinak is getting a guild full of morans through the maze

the dragon itself is not that hard at all

[Vamael]

it easy to get to plus evreyone has CoH bots.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Rellapse40 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hardest part about yelinak is getting a guild full of morans through the maze

the dragon itself is not that hard at all

Is that why people here wipe to Hoshkar and Nexona

[Rellapse40]

just b/c 99% of the guilds suck does not mean the mob is hard

[Nirgon]

Think you 99% get my point then sir

[Silent]

Had a Fist of Nature on live blue Tribunal, Got it just around early luclin release. Don't really remember if it WAS in before or not. I do remember that I was one of like 3 monks on the server with it at the time because it was so rare. It was H2H when I got it no 1hb. I don't remember nor did I look up the dates of Luclin release to remember that far back, but 2-3 months later I picked up that ugly fist weapon off vyzdra the cursed in ssra temple that reminded me of stargate Goauld snakes. As nice as this would be to have in game for velious, I really don't think it was. If someone wants to dig deeper for info on it, im all for it. But I think itll be nearly impossible to find any proof. Like one of the other posters said, technically could have been on the loot table and just never dropped until after.

[wycca]

I've kept digging at this.

I now think there's enough evidence to suggest that this weapon may have been added 10/08/01 or 11/07/01 -

Please start in my first post and come back, then please check my Gharn's thread here - http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=157586

Lastly, in order to debunk many of the claims made by previous posters (wasn't in the game until 2002, hundreds of Tunare kills and nothing showed up, 6 months is a long time for a weapon to not show up, etc) - I give you - http://eq.magelo.com/item/5776

An initial magelo entry of 12/24/01 - Over a month before people's "first kill" theory.

The 10/08/01 patch discussed melee revamps, it specifically addressed some weapon availability, specifically mentioning knights. It also introduced (but not in patch notes for whatever reason), a slew of monk weapon updates and additions. It added Primal/priceless Velium Fist Wraps, it added the Fist of Lightning, and there is every indication given my prior research/points that the FoN was in the game significantly before people said it was. Items often took awhile (even 4-6 months) to end up in magelo - witness the Fist of Lightning which was clearly added 10/8/01 but didn't show up in magelo's database until April of 2002! They also, as proven by Magelo, sometimes took (at least a month) to end up in some guild's update. Why is it a stretch to believe it wasn't a drop for Legacy of Sorrow (as is quite clearly hinted at) and on the drop table pre-Luclin? The indicators given by previous posters are largely flawed and at least partially debunked by the Magelo, and I think I've just successfully pushed back the time frame even further on when this item was actually in-game, and given credible support to the theory that it likely was added in on 10/08/01.

10/08 OR 11/07 theory based on Tunare loot revamp - There are no mentions of anything related to Tunare loot revamps in any patch messages before the Magelo date of 12/24/01, back to the 10/08/01 patch date I highlighted. They were largely focused on fixing all of the horrible Luclin launch issues, graphics bugs, etc in that time frame. I'd also like to point out that Tunare's loot underwent an intermediate upgrade at some point. The loot upgrade was DEFINITELY in the game by 11/10/01, please see -
- http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=7026 (item added 11/10/01 to Magelo)
- http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=7026 - the 2 comments at Nov 14 2001 at 7:06 PM from Scotty and TruKing discussing an upgrade
- http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/i...0&p=2#comments - the 2 comments at Nov 20 2001 at 7:27 PM from Megummi and Calimyr

Ergo, ample evidence that her loot table was adjusted pre-Luclin, the possible patch dates are 10-08-01 (for all the reasons above plus the time necessary to generate magelo entries & allas comments & get kills & circulate loot amongst playerbase for comments) and all dates up until 11/10/01 (the earring magelo entry) - there were patches between those dates on 10/31, 11/07, and 11/08. The 10/31 patch was a tiny patch and mainly focused around Halloween events, the 11/07 patch is a potential culprit as it was a large patch, and the 11/08 patch was a small emergency patch. The only two options 10/08 and 11/07 IMO.

Now consider this - So the Fist was definitely in game as of 12/24/01. They significantly reviewed Tunare's loot table - most likely 10/08/01 or 11/07/01, as evidenced by item upgrades around that time frame. They also added and upgraded several monk weapons in the 10/08/01 patch....where they also mentioned future upgrades to monk weapons. They could have been referring to the monk weapon upgrades they did put in (but failed to put in patch notes, ie a mis-communication) which could have included the Fist AND tunare changes, or it's possible that they knew a Tunare revamp was due and added a monk weapon with that (either 10/08 or 11/07). Either way, there's little reason to believe that while Luclin hell was going on for the dev team they came back and added *1* item to her loot table prior to the 12/24 Magelo entry...and didn't instead just add it either in the 10/08 monk item revamp.....or a potential 10/08 or 11/07 Tunare item revamp.

The fist WAS quite clearly in the game much much earlier than people are saying, and there is quite a bit of logical evidence that suggests it was probably added in either the monk item revamp (10/08) or a tunare loot revamp (10/08 or 11/07)....both of which occured pre-Luclin.

[Loke]

I'd agree there is enough evidence to work under the assumption that the item was in game sometime before Luclin, unless proven otherwise. We let Trakanon drop a Ton Po's, which never happened on any live server (Only dropped on Test, possibly a GM event on Stormhammer, and Casinos - Jojo is only monk who ever had one on live prior to casinos, I just can't remember if it was from test and transferred to live via stormhammer, or was attained on stormhammer), so I think allowing it on the loot table, possibly at the same time as the weapon upgrades is consistent with server precedent.

I'm all about classic, but I don't see what the big deal is. Gharn's is a superior weapon after the upgrade, so it isn't like having FoN in game is that big of a deal. Much less so than Ton Po's imo.

[pasi]

Wycca,

The exact date that we pinned on the item is far less important than what side of the Velious/Luclin fence that the item falls on.

12/24/2001 still puts this on the Luclin side of the fence.

This was an item with a medium drop rate on an NPC that was killed very regularly on (almost?) every server after her loot leaked. You're attributing Fist of Nature to the 11/07/2001 patch. Luclin was 12/04/2001. That's nearly a month later. Furthermore, the magelo date you have is 20 days post-Luclin. The other loot that was patched in was discovered shortly (days) after patching. This does leave a scenario where the Fists were either added and not dropping or had such a low drop rate that no-one server wide managed to get any.

However, even if we go off these unlikely explanations, there is still the hand-to-hand and required level argument as well. The Primal FISTs that went into the game on 11/07 were 1 HB. The earliest known Fist of Nature was a HtH Weapon. Why would they not introduce HtH weapons with Primal/Priceless Fistwraps also? In addition, why would they wait until post-Luclin to patch all the other Velious items with a required level tag?

The argument against the Fist of Nature existing pre-Luclin is a pretty strong one at this point. I hope this doesn't stop you from continuing to look for evidence against this case as we could be very wrong.