Nocturne

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you can't get more eloquent than Hitchens or Dawkins on the question of atheism

No Sam Harris?

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't heard anyone make a cogent argument on the subject that didn't originate with the thinking of these men

I'd take it one step further and postulate that Russell was doing it well before Hitch or Dawkins were out of diapers.

[Black Jesus]

all blowhards

[Ahldagor]

been away for a while. people still babbling about these shenanigans? mila is proof of evolution people.

[Black Jesus]

As a supporter of the Great Ape Project—a movement to extend certain moral and legal rights to all great apes—Dawkins contributed



....

JAJAJA dude really thinks hes a fucking monkey what the fuck

that is the most retarded braindead liberal sentence ive ever read

[Kagatob]

Speaking of Dawkins I'm very happy that the guy has calmed his ass down the past few years, it's almost as if he's given up his zealous quest to be right and embraced logic or something.
Also don't worry too much about lables, when Dawkins admitted to being agnostic it was when he was cornered in a debate, you can be an atheist and still acknowledge the possibility that some sort of greater force could exist as long as you are denouncing the gods of the mainstream religions of man. Something Dawkins certainly does. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Hitchens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno about any of that, I just know they write good books.

I actually haven't read any Hitchens. I read the god delusion, liked some of it but am turned off by his certainty and attempt to redefine words. Speaking of:

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also don't worry too much about lables, when Dawkins admitted to being agnostic it was when he was cornered in a debate, you can be an atheist and still acknowledge the possibility that some sort of greater force could exist as long as you are denouncing the gods of the mainstream religions of man. Something Dawkins certainly does. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bolded is a false statement. I do not cotton to the "strong," "weak," and "agnostic" type atheists. I think Dawkins here tries to relabel agnostics in an attempt to make a mass movement against religion "seem" to have a harder stance, making it more accessible to reactionaries. While I applaud his efforts to undermine religion, I think the methods are suspect. If you are "not certain" or "without knowledge" on the question of whether or not there is a higher power, you are by definition an agnostic on the topic, regardless of any unsubstantiated view or opinion you may have. People who are certain one way or the other are theists and atheists, and in my view equally dogmatic / stupid.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Hitchens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno about any of that, I just know they write good books.

I was referencing their debates, which I have spent many, many hours watching.

Both men speak incredibly well, and imho Dawkins speaks better than he writes.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Kagatob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

denouncing the gods of the mainstream religions of man

Atheism is not the same as anti-religion. One has to do with the nature of the universe, the other to do with the nature of something some person said and/or wrote down.

[Hasbinbad]

I am at once agnostic about whether or not there is a higher power and certain that all religions are wrong.