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Old 06-18-2013, 04:01 PM
Stinkum Stinkum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xCry0x
I mean, is your expectation of a Bard NPC that twists songs one that simply sits there playing a flute?
lolwut? I don't even know what you're smoking but I would imagine the non-dragon Bard NPCs would melee while twisting songs appropriate for whatever level the NPC is (slows, PBAEs, DoTs, charms, etc). This is the same way any other class mob works.
Last edited by Stinkum; 06-18-2013 at 04:21 PM.. Reason: read your post
  #2  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:19 PM
stormlord stormlord is offline
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Well, if you want a realistic reproduce of the classes then the standard NPCs in classic EQ weren't a good example anyway. The rangers I killed on live, for example, never were smart enough to try to root/snare me and then run away a safe distance to heal up. And if I was on a warrior they feasibly could have rooted me and used their bow to supplement their killing power. Instead they just stood there within melee range and I killed them. For that matter, none of the classes were very smart. So while they did implement an abysmal example of the bard, the rest of the examples weren't great, either. Don't skip over that, please.

Bottom line, don't expect much from NPC AI. In fact, I've seen many examples in the MMORPG arena from different companies that they think smart NPCs would be too hard/grindy for players to kill. Honestly, would you enjoy it if an NPC kited you or used the walls to protect itself while it healed up? Would you like it if they always ran to other NPCs even when they were above 70% health just to ensure they'd win?

Good AI would make the game more inaccessible. Think about the warrior example I gave. I tested the idea several times with a lvl 17 ranger and lvl 17 warrior. Basically, the ranger's root gave him infinitely more power versus the warrior. The warrior had no chance. So if we had good AI in classic EQ then soloing warriors would never touch a ranger or any class that roots/snares. And we all know that one of the compaints warriors had was that they couldn't solo well. Imagine their ability to solo being even worse...

This is why on the pvp servers most starting players would do hybrids or casters. Doing a warrior or monk, by comparison, put you in harms way because it exposed you to twinks AND new players, unless you had a close knit group of friends to play with. The other thing was that there were less players on pvp servers and non-hybrids couldn't find groups. So the beforementioned warrior will wander from zone to zone looking for a group and then get potentially killed by a random hybrid that's not even twinked.
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Last edited by stormlord; 06-19-2013 at 01:33 PM..
  #3  
Old 06-18-2013, 09:02 PM
Rhaj Rhaj is offline
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Do you think other NPC mobs would bitch about NPC bards hogging all the PC spawns?
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2013, 09:44 PM
Sadre Spinegnawer Sadre Spinegnawer is offline
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well, it is a rather large gap in the lore and immersion aspect. The Maestro should be a bard. I always thought it was pretty lame he wasn't.
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:13 PM
porigromus porigromus is offline
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And "twisting" songs does not ruin your immersion? I think it's ridiculous that they never fixed the issue, that being single songs being too weak rather than allow people to continue to "sing" all songs at once (Imagine how that would sound?).

If bards were ever customized on this server, I for one would hope twisting wouldn't exist anymore and all songs would get a boost as well as bard's melee dps.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:57 AM
Vexenu Vexenu is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porigromus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And "twisting" songs does not ruin your immersion? I think it's ridiculous that they never fixed the issue, that being single songs being too weak rather than allow people to continue to "sing" all songs at once (Imagine how that would sound?).

If bards were ever customized on this server, I for one would hope twisting wouldn't exist anymore and all songs would get a boost as well as bard's melee dps.
Behold, the Bard!

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Old 06-19-2013, 01:43 AM
Swish Swish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Behold, the Bard!

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They really get an invis song? They must sing that very quietly..
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:21 AM
t0lkien t0lkien is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porigromus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And "twisting" songs does not ruin your immersion? I think it's ridiculous that they never fixed the issue, that being single songs being too weak rather than allow people to continue to "sing" all songs at once (Imagine how that would sound?).

If bards were ever customized on this server, I for one would hope twisting wouldn't exist anymore and all songs would get a boost as well as bard's melee dps.
It would sound fine if they were all in the same key, or related keys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0YpAE8HwWA

Twisting was by design. It's brilliant as well, and resulted in the best class mechanic I've ever played.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:22 AM
falkun falkun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Twisting was by design. It's brilliant as well, and resulted in the best class mechanic I've ever played.
This. Twisting is a fantastic mechanic, especially combined with only allowing 8 possible songs at a time. While the "twitch finger" mechanic is very similar to WoW, WoW allows you to utilize all your spells, so it becomes a cut and dry rotation due to spell_A always outDPSing spell_B. EQ limits you to 8 spell slots, so you need to pick the best variety for your expected encounters. Also, unlike WoW's "rotation" button mashing, twisting changes depending on situation. I have to drop a song to add another to the rotation, so what song do I skip when I have to charm/mez a mob?

EQ Bard twisting is the genesis of WoW's rotation button mashing, but has a much better system than WoW for checks and balances to keep it interesting.
  #10  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:59 AM
Stinkum Stinkum is offline
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Thread is all over the place.

But yeah, twisting songs is what made EQ, EQ. What you are describing is how Bards/Minstrels were on DAoC, which was a great game and might be more your style.
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