How is hybrid hate these days? - Page 8

SCB · #71 07-13-2014, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because you're not healing the ranger. The warrior sucks up damage and actually heals up well enough w/o fast health drops. They "can tank" but your healer is going to be 0m much of the time... which means less heals for you and slower pulls overall.

This is simply not true. On this server, there is almost no group content short of HS (and arguably HS North is doable depending on group makeup) that a ranger can't tank with negligible difference to a warrior, assuming the group has even just enchanter slow.

By the same token, I've seen warriors in full crafted tank Chef and Disco in seb, replacing the typically hate/cobalt mix you see, and nothing change with regard to exp gain. Mobs just really aren't that difficult if players are even remotely competent.

Daywolf · #72 07-13-2014, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCB [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is simply not true. On this server, there is almost no group content short of HS (and arguably HS North is doable depending on group makeup) that a ranger can't tank with negligible difference to a warrior, assuming the group has even just enchanter slow.

By the same token, I've seen warriors in full crafted tank Chef and Disco in seb, replacing the typically hate/cobalt mix you see, and nothing change with regard to exp gain. Mobs just really aren't that difficult if players are even remotely competent.

uh-huh... Just like tonight, our group got wiped, ranger not paying attention and thinking he's a tank while he sucks up everyones heals. Then goes all pissy ballistic when he goes down after fumbling into someones else's death train (and he got warned it was there) dragging them onto us thinking the healers can keep him up. Rangers pown as tanks! Obviously the healers fault [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Oh well, what can you expect from rangers in pugs I guess. You guys insisting rangers are tanks, yeah I'm sure are bad. And sadly I see a lot of that in-game.

fastboy21 · #73 07-13-2014, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

uh-huh... Just like tonight, our group got wiped, ranger not paying attention and thinking he's a tank while he sucks up everyones heals. Then goes all pissy ballistic when he goes down after fumbling into someones else's death train (and he got warned it was there) dragging them onto us thinking the healers can keep him up. Rangers pown as tanks! Obviously the healers fault [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Oh well, what can you expect from rangers in pugs I guess. You guys insisting rangers are tanks, yeah I'm sure are bad. And sadly I see a lot of that in-game.

most of the rangers i meet at this point (i'd say at least 4 out of 5) are hella twinked projects...and they generally are played by very competent aware players.

i'm not denying that your ranger was crap...but its def the exception from the ones i've played with this summer.

Ciroco · #74 07-13-2014, 11:19 PM

Your proof that Rangers can't tank is that your Ranger trained you and wiped your group?

Laugher · #75 07-13-2014, 11:38 PM

Think this came up last summer but fwiw I had a ranger tank for 3 days at least 4 hrs straight in lguk. I was a druid and I still had mana with no ench in the group [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] not sure if dude was a twinked beast or what, but he was a ranger and was able to tank frenzy pretty smoothly

Daywolf · #76 07-13-2014, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

most of the rangers i meet at this point (i'd say at least 4 out of 5) are hella twinked projects...and they generally are played by very competent aware players.

i'm not denying that your ranger was crap...but its def the exception from the ones i've played with this summer.

Well yeah, like I said, not all rangers are crap, and even spoke positively about rangers... some of them anywat, the class. But twinking doesn't really solve the problem. In fact "twinking" was commonly held as a bad word on live the first few years, sad to see it so well regarded here. I'd rather invite someone knowing what he should be doing in a proper group rather than someone twinked trying to do what they shouldn't be doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciroco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your proof that Rangers can't tank is that your Ranger trained you and wiped your group?

Proof? It's how they are built, they don't stand up as tanks due to their very nature. SOE never designed them to be tanks, and to do so is like trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole. It was always that way even at launch. Even AA didn't really improve the situation for us ranger players, since other classes got AA and trying to AA your ranger into a tank will still leave you at second best if even that. If you want to tank, roll a tank, seriously.

Now if you want to talk about the other things a ranger can do, the things that make them worth having in a group, well they are definitely good points, probably a ranger I'd invite to group. But to sell them off as tanks, just sort of demeans the class and only progresses your "ranger hate" stuff.

Ciroco · #77 07-14-2014, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Proof? It's how they are built, they don't stand up as tanks due to their very nature. SOE never designed them to be tanks, and to do so is like trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole. It was always that way even at launch.

lol. Bards and monks weren't "designed" to be tanks either (as if what exists in game is a good representation of what SoE intended), but they tank all the time and do fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even AA didn't really improve the situation for us ranger players, since other classes got AA and trying to AA your ranger into a tank will still leave you at second best if even that. If you want to tank, roll a tank, seriously.

I don't know what era you played until, but AAs were huge for Ranger group tanking. Yes, it leaves them at "second best". Why is that bad? Do all groups require the absolute best tank? Is trading some mitigation for DPS always a bad idea?

You're acting as if people are advocating Ranger MTs for every group. They're the 6th or 7th best in game at taking hits, yeah. The point is that there are plenty of situations where that's good enough.

Daywolf · #78 07-14-2014, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciroco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're acting as if people are advocating Ranger MTs for every group. They're the 6th or 7th best in game at taking hits, yeah. The point is that there are plenty of situations where that's good enough.

And like I said, there are places where they can do that (e.g. vs animals outdoors etc). But in places like KC as I mentioned, well the group is pretty much doomed if you are trying to stick the ranger with tanky duty. They are not tanks, and you are not going to convince me otherwise, only get your group wiped. It's just foolishness, and I've seen too many rangers think that they are tanks ...but are not [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So no other selling points for rangers, eh? Just want to keep up the roxxor tank act. I could list lots of good points as to why to bring in a ranger to a proper group, but I'm sure wasted words here, it's all about the awesome tank they are.

Ciroco · #79 07-14-2014, 04:10 AM

Considering that KC is outdoors and that Rangers shine there more than probably any other popular group spot, I doubt you have actually played one here.

Come group with me some time. I'll even tank for you.

Erydan Ouragan · #80 07-14-2014, 05:37 AM

Daywolf, we're not saying they ARE tanks, we're saying they CAN tank. Nuance.

It's true that a paladin/SK/warrior will always be true tanks, but trust me, with the right group composition, rangers can definitely tank and do it well.

Sometimes there's just no "real" tanks available so what would you do? Sit with your thumb up your ass and wait, or grab a shammy/chanter and get the ranger to tank and have some xp?

It's not the optimal setup, of course, so people will actually have to play the game instead of watching TV semi-AFK, oh no.