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[Swish]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just making me break my quota arnt you.

<3

My first interaction with BDA was in 2010 as a noob outside Neriak one time. 20-25 of you were outside there waiting for something to happen, and handed me a weapon and buffed the shit out of me.

Great people, great times...probably had the best rep on the server and many giving folks.

Now for whatever sensible/logical reasons there's a suggestion of ditching the rotation for more pixel gain. That's the bottom line, more pixels. Right?

As much as I'm sure BDA/Taken/etc care about Asgard's Velious raid prep and all...

Why not maintain the status quo or move up rather than trying to conquer the smaller guilds because you think you can get more?

[Man0warr]

My thought behind alliances is that if two guilds field 20 people each and split loot in half then they wait another 2 months or w/e and split loot in half again then are they really getting more than the 40 members of the guild that killed it solo for all of the loot? It seems like the loot is not the real issue here but rather just the opportunity to fight the imaginary dragon (something that I obviously live for!).

If you look at your 20+20 as the same as the single 40 guild, you are getting twice the amount of loot since you are in the rotation twice vs just the once.

Your scenario makes it sounds like your 2 guilds as an alliance are just a single entity on the rotation, but as of now you take up 2 slots.

Why not maintain the status quo or move up rather than trying to conquer the smaller guilds because you think you can get more?

Because alliances are taking advantage of the current rotation rules and that directly hurts any Class R guild who doesn't ally with another guild to get 2 spots on every mob rotation.

[Argh]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not maintain the status quo or move up rather than trying to conquer the smaller guilds because you think you can get more?

BDA/Taken feel slighted because they got hosed during the last period for rule changes. They wanted what they're proposing now, almost verbatim, and instead got a rule put in place that has had absolutely zero effect on what they had issue with.

Really what Taken/Div/BDA wants is to get rid of R guilds ability to ever use assistance of another guild. In doing so, either the lists get shorter, or more mobs go R-FFA where they are likely to kill them without penalty.

They think that any guild that needs help to kill a mob shouldn't be signed up for that mob. I think that is a point that everyone can agree on, however, where everyone disagrees is how to judge that. Everyone on the rotation has killed every mob solo, and even BDA has required assistance from 2 guilds to kill early AM Trak, and recently Divinity failed to kill Gore within their allotted solo time. They rely heavily on the assertion that smaller guilds rely on the help of other guilds consistently, however this
is not based in reality and is complete malarkey.

Their position isn't ridiculous or without merit, but they're absolutely awful at negotiating and managing relationships which is critical to maintaining an agreement between 10 different guilds.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you look at your 20+20 as the same as the single 40 guild, you are getting twice the amount of loot since you are in the rotation twice vs just the once.

Your scenario makes it sounds like your 2 guilds as an alliance are just a single entity on the rotation, but as of now you take up 2 slots.



Because alliances are taking advantage of the current rotation rules and that directly hurts any Class R guild who doesn't ally with another guild to get 2 spots on every mob rotation.

I'm confused. How does it hurt all R guilds when 2 guilds split their loot between their 2 kills on the rotation? Who cares? Is it that hard to simply 'pretend they did field a crew at 3am'? These guilds aren't getting anything 'extra', just a little help for 3am spawns when they've been waiting 2 months for their turn.

It'd just be refreshing if the big class R guilds would quit pretending like this is anything other than 'we think we should get more loot than the other R guilds who aren't as large and can't field a crew at 3am'. It's like 2-3 spawns/month. That is so inconsequential.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm confused. How does it hurt all R guilds when 2 guilds split their loot between their 2 kills on the rotation? Who cares? Is it that hard to simply 'pretend they did field a crew at 3am'? These guilds aren't getting anything 'extra', just a little help for 3am spawns when they've been waiting 2 months for their turn.

Because their getting twice the loot for the same (or less) amount of people at the raid, and a lot of times they can't kill said raid mob without the alliance. It's more spawns going to less people, and making it take longer for the rotation to get back around to the larger guilds.

So either become an alliance (or merge) and take up 1 slot on the rotation, or fail to kill the mob and the rotation moves on.

If BDA/Taken/Div really wanted to take advantage of the situation, they would just split up into 2 guilds and ally for everything. It would make the rotation even longer but it would be some % more loots than they are getting now. But no one would do that because it's fucking stupid to be forced to do such a thing.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm confused. How does it hurt all R guilds when 2 guilds split their loot between their 2 kills on the rotation? Who cares? Is it that hard to simply 'pretend they did field a crew at 3am'? These guilds aren't getting anything 'extra', just a little help for 3am spawns when they've been waiting 2 months for their turn.

I do not see that being an issue, but if you have half a dozen 6 man guilds on the rotation and they all ally with a single 30 man guild and loot is distributed proportionally then there could be issues ^^

That is an exaggeration, but you get the idea ^^

[Mendo]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because their getting twice the loot for the same (or less) amount of people at the raid, and a lot of times they can't kill said raid mob without the alliance. It's more spawns going to less people, and making it take longer for the rotation to get back around to the larger guilds.

So either become an alliance (or merge) and take up 1 slot on the rotation, or fail to kill the mob and the rotation moves on.

If BDA/Taken/Div really wanted to take advantage of the situation, they would just split up into 2 guilds and ally for everything. It would make the rotation even longer but it would be some % more loots than they are getting now. But no one would do that because it's fucking stupid to be forced to do such a thing.

Can't we all agree that waking up at 3am to kill a poop socked mob is lame?

[Mendo]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We work on a dkp bidding system with minimum reqs for dragon (class r loot) which is 100 lifetime dkp earned and 20% RA over 60 days. We try not to deviate although I'm sure all members can cite examples of where we have slipped up along the way.

My thought behind alliances is that if two guilds field 20 people each and split loot in half then they wait another 2 months or w/e and split loot in half again then are they really getting more than the 40 members of the guild that killed it solo for all of the loot? It seems like the loot is not the real issue here but rather just the opportunity to fight the imaginary dragon (something that I obviously live for!).

If you put in work you should get paid... I believe we allow people to spend their earned DKP to help them have more fun in the game. Sometimes that means that they are going to leave our guild to join a bigger monster guild to kill VP mobs.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by Mendo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can't we all agree that waking up at 3am to kill a poop socked mob is lame?

I agree, but that won't change as long as there is 16 hour variance, which is a much bigger issue than this Class R stuff.

[Daldaen]

Getting rid of assistance where the assister doesn't drop to the bottom of the rotation.***

Guilds should be encouraged to kill mobs on their own. If they cannot that is fine they are welcome to ally up and occupy a single rotation slot as a pair of guilds.